decisions, decisions...

[mat3833]

this is a fairly long post, please bear with me.

im getting a list of things to do to my car together and i cant decide what order to do them in! here is a list of things i plan to do in the future(in no specific order)

1. do a 4wd swap from a quattro
2. get a ttda or TM tuning maxx flo
3. get an exhaust(help me on this, 2.5 inch downpipe or 3 inch? also i want a lower growl instead of the ricer sound. is there any real sound diference in the exhausts?)
4. chip it! probobly getting this done first. Uni stage 1+ if youre wondering.
5. TIP, what flows/ is the best?
6. upgrading to a thicker smic, no front "i go fast" look for me.
7. KO4 upgrade, mainly want a wider powerband, not looking to break 400 hp here. any other better turbos in respect to a nice meaty powerband?
8. DV
9. 2 stage boost controller from boostvalve
10. a new N75 valve, probobly the "J" version.
11. do this: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0685/article.html mainly the anti-creep part, not the boost control, thats what the boostvalve is for!
12. make a swirch for my DRL's and fog lights.(dont ask, its a pet peeve of mine... go ahead and call me anal!)
13. shifter
14. air ride suspension(again, help me on this. what kit/system is best. see here:http://www.newbeetle.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26166 for more info on what i want to do.
15. rims, stock height but a tad wider. looking at schmidts.

and i think thats about it. any other things i should throw into the mix to add some umph or "ahh!" factor?

Matt

[zeusenergy]

Originally Posted by mat3833

this is a fairly long post, please bear with me.

im getting a list of things to do to my car together and i cant decide what order to do them in! here is a list of things i plan to do in the future(in no specific order)

1. do a 4wd swap from a quattro
2. get a ttda or TM tuning maxx flo
3. get an exhaust(help me on this, 2.5 inch downpipe or 3 inch? also i want a lower growl instead of the ricer sound. is there any real sound diference in the exhausts?)
4. chip it! probobly getting this done first. Uni stage 1+ if youre wondering.
5. TIP, what flows/ is the best?
6. upgrading to a thicker smic, no front "i go fast" look for me.
7. KO4 upgrade, mainly want a wider powerband, not looking to break 400 hp here. any other better turbos in respect to a nice meaty powerband?
8. DV
9. 2 stage boost controller from boostvalve
10. a new N75 valve, probobly the "J" version.
11. do this: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0685/article.html mainly the anti-creep part, not the boost control, thats what the boostvalve is for!
12. make a swirch for my DRL's and fog lights.(dont ask, its a pet peeve of mine... go ahead and call me anal!)
13. shifter
14. air ride suspension(again, help me on this. what kit/system is best. see here:http://www.newbeetle.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26166 for more info on what i want to do.
15. rims, stock height but a tad wider. looking at schmidts.

and i think thats about it. any other things i should throw into the mix to add some umph or "ahh!" factor?

Matt

Quattro? Are you mad?
Better to find a TT complete, cut away the floor at the rear, and steal the whole driveline including the more powerful 1.8T in it. Then you can deal with an exhaust, becuase it will need to be custom one-off to clear the driveline in back anyway. Really if this is what you want, you will have to pay for another car to do it. Find a light rollover.
What's the purpose of the AWD? It's not necessary if you go with a really nice Quaife or LSD to replace your stock diff. That'll handle 350 HP and possibly more with serious transmission mods and racing clutch. But you will need to dump big $ into mods on a 1.8 anyway to get the kind of power that REQUIRES AWD! In your case if you are serious about AWD, go with a turbo VR6, all done up and made for juice. So in the end you will be buying three cars, pretty much.....
Don't forget that the quattro driveline will weigh down your light bug. So some of the benefits of haing it will be offset by the amount of loot you are willing to dump into a 1.8T, which is why I suggest the VR6T. Forget the air ride. Go with adjustable coilovers after doing all that work!
BTW, the "growl" you are looking for can be had in spades with a VR6!! And almost EVERYTHING will need to be custom, too. Including the spring rates, damping, swaybars, brakes, engine harness routing, exhaust, engine management, ducting, piping, vaccum, electrics, etc.

[mat3833]

i want the AWD to help with some torque steer and the understeer that comes with front wheel frive cars. plus, i like the idea of 4wd. plus, it isnt as hard as you see it: http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...kswagen_beetle.

but for discussions sake, say i skip the 4wd, can you help with everything else?

Matt

[Too Cold NB1.8T]

To answer you original question, I would group the chassis/suspension, driveline and exhaust work as one project and the drivetrain power upgrade work as a separate project.

FYI, unless you intend to approach the 400+HP range with this car, adding an AWD setup is just adding a serious amount of unnecessary unsprung weight, this weight will absorb a portion of any power increases that you apply on a number of levels, it will decrease your gas mileage, braking time and acceleration time.

You really shouldn't have any torque steer, at least not any to speak of unless something is wrong with the vehicle, if you want to drastically improve the transfer of power to the ground along with other response characteristics without adding weight, "86" the AWD idea (unless this is a very high HP application) and look into a Eurospec close ratio 6spd manual transmission with a Peloquin or Quaiffe LSD, done right, this will be a big plus.

If you forgo the AWD, your upgrade process will become much easier and more straight forward as well and I would still group the chassis area work as one operation and the top-side work as separate projects for the most part.

If you are going with a K04 or larger then you likely intend to do a good amount of spirited driving, I would recommend a proper FMIC over the less efficient SMIC design, these turbo's with higher boost levels, coupled with the often sustained aggressive driving, create a great deal of power robbing heat and an SMIC is not going to cool nearly as well as an FMIC in these extended pounding situations, an FMIC will experience much less heat soaking (your choice of course).

Air ride suspensions are great for the ride, however, if you are looking for real maneuverability and performance handling then air ride is not so great, make sure that you figure out exactly what your needs here are before you proceed.

Unless you are experienced with the operation/requirements of engine management then I would not suggest using an MBC, a well designed software chip for your application might be a better choice here (GIAC).

I would start out with the stock "C" or "F" N75 valve unless the software that you use requires something else, most software manufacturers create their performance chips with a vehicle that is in stock form, try not to deviate in these areas during the initial install and you will minimize resulting problems and diagnostic confusion.

Check this link >>Turbo Upgrade Questions...

[Billsbug]

Dude, u've already posted SEPARATE threads addressing all this, why a combined one now?

4WD with air suspension?!

Print this page and let Too Cold NB1.8T be your guide.

[mat3833]

ive driven a few air-ride'd cars before and all bt one were bouncy, the one was a mazda miata witha performance air ride kit. it out handled the stock car by about .18g's on a skidpad. i decided to combine the threads so i didnt hve to keep up with the others. also, it makes sense to talk about the mods in combination instead of seperate. so i am actually not crazy, as you implied. lol.

too cold, i dont want my engine temps to go up at all, if i can have a fmic without engine temps rising more than a few degrees then a fmic will be on my list.

can anyone order my upgrades list into a logical progression of "most effective"??

Matt

[Too Cold NB1.8T]

Not to be crasp but it is no great feat to setup a suspension that will out perform the suspension of a stock Beetle, the stock Beetle suspension leaves much to be desired.

There is nothing wrong with air ride suspension systems but they have their purpose and place, that purpose/place is not in a car that will be driven by someone who expects real response and handling characteristics from their machine.

Be sure of what you want and be realistic about your expectations before proceeding, this way you are less likely to be disappointed and you won't waste time and money.

[mat3833]

i am happy with the cars handeling minus the distinctive push. suspension is my plan for later on in the cars life at the moment. any help with the rest of the stuff? is there any turbo ststem that builds boost/torque faster than the K04/K03s without shortening the powerband?

Matt

[mat3833]

Originally Posted by Too Cold NB1.8T

Be sure of what you want and be realistic about your expectations before proceeding, this way you are less likely to be disappointed and you won't waste time and money.

oh, and that should be a headline on this site. i had to learn that the hard way with my old car:







take a guess on the $ i had into it!

Matt

[Too Cold NB1.8T]

If you plan to build greater HP/Tq levels and you will be ripping around on the streets and highways, then suspension and braking upgrades should be near the top of your list.

You might be very surprised at how ineffective the stock suspension and brakes become with just 40HP and 50Lb.Ft of TQ increase to the stock power.

Going fast feels fantastic but being able to stop equally as well and have your car not continue going straight after you've turned the steering wheel, well I guarantee that this feels even better.

Just a little sage advise.

[mat3833]

brakes are a top priority! the car above had 4 wheel discs and could stop faster than a fly on glue paper. any sugestions? i plan to add braided stainless lines first. id like to be able to keep the stock rims and go vented in the rear as well.

Matt

[Billsbug]

Hard to believe u actually built a car b4.

Let's take it from the top:

1. Slow your thought process down a few notches, ur gonna blow a fuse.
2. Chip (APR/GIAC/REVO), exhaust (turbo-back is best or at least a cat-back), DV (Forge/APR/Stratmosphere)), N-75 'race' valve ("H") (ecstuning.com), install all of this at the same time.
3. Rear sway bar (O-bar/Neuspeed/Autotech) and dogbones (ecstuning.com). This will help get rid of understeer, torque steer and wheel hop.
4. Brake pads (GreenStuff/Mintex/Hawk) and wider, stickier tires. Buy the very best tire u can afford, look at ratings on www.tirerack.com, u do not need to upgrade brakes at this level IMO.

Later on you can upgrade the shocks/springs, or use coilovers, and add an upper strut bar.

Try this, then, if ur still not satisfied, u can always upgrade to a K04.

[NYBugman]

Nowhere on your list do I see "track time".

Right now, your car can outperform you. Learn to drive it on the track as-is or with some basic mods (swaybar, chip, brake pads). The part of the car that needs the most improvement is ALWAYS the driver. You'd be surprised what these cars can do with some basic mods and a more experienced driver.

And no, "spirited" street driving doesn't count. If you think you're a good or a fast driver on the street, you're in for a surprise when you take it to the track.

[Billsbug]

Originally Posted by NYBugman

Nowhere on your list do I see "track time".

Right now, your car can outperform you. Learn to drive it on the track as-is or with some basic mods (swaybar, chip, brake pads). The part of the car that needs the most improvement is ALWAYS the driver. You'd be surprised what these cars can do with some basic mods and a more experienced driver.

And no, "spirited" street driving doesn't count. If you think you're a good or a fast driver on the street, you're in for a surprise when you take it to the track.

[mat3833]

im actually waiting for a track day here in central florida! i want to test the skills i aquired, from my other car, out. granted, rear-engine/rear drive is a totally diferent beast than a front/front car. if i could get the NB to have less understeer and a bit more "umph" below 2000 RPM i would be more in love!

oh and i actually built that car by myself with a bit of teaching from my dad and uncle. it was a complete body off resto-mod. let me tell you, comming from a car as simple as a 70 "dub" to a turbo, fuel injected, intercooled, WATERCOOLED, emissions legal, four cylender is a massive jump! hell, give me a 1600dual port and ill tear it down, clean it and re-build it in about a day. i could do that with almoast all of that car. there is a steep learning curve with the new dubs. im hoping to learn as fast as i can! thanks for bearing with me. oh and would you beleive i built the car above when i was 15?

Matt

[Too Cold NB1.8T]

There is absolutely no problem with Critiquing the under/over steer of this car, obtaining great response under 2,000RPM can be accomplished but could require attention to various areas of the drivetrain, including the transmissions gearing and differential, it all depends on what your looking for.

The proper software file for a K03 is different than one for a K04 but the cost is nearly the same, based on my experience, your best bet is to forgo the K03 performance chip and spring for a K04 turbo upgrade and K04 software, this will save you time, the expense of buying two chips and an additional $300 to $500.

Do the exhaust of your choice (I recommend a 63.5mm turbo-back), upgrade your brakes but don't just change the pads, look into a big brake system for the front along with slotted rotors, braided lines and performance pads for all four corners (check out Stoptech, Brimbo, Wilwood etc), also, don't forget to flush all brake fluid from the system and use a high temperature non-silicone brake fluid like Motul RBF 600 or ATE Super Blue Racing.

Look into a quality coil-over suspension system (Bilstein, Koni etc), top grade street performance tires (Bridgestone S03,Goodyear F1 etc.)all of these.

Driving instructions (if required) are always a good idea, however, it doesn’t' matter whether you do that before, during or after you start performing your upgrades and here is why, regardless of how long one has owned a particular vehicle, after each upgrade that vehicle is like a new and unfamiliar machine and it should be driven as such, carefully with gradual aggression until the operator has thoroughly reaquianted themselves with the vehicle in it's new form.

Above all, take your time.

[Billsbug]

K04 upgrade alone is $3K with intercooler, so keep that in mind. KO3(S) chips are $699 or so, then only $199 later on to update to the K04 program.

[NYBugman]

Originally Posted by Too Cold NB1.8T

Driving instructions (if required) are always a good idea, however, it doesn’t' matter whether you do that before, during or after you start performing your upgrades and here is why, regardless of how long one has owned a particular vehicle, after each upgrade that vehicle is like a new and unfamiliar machine and it should be driven as such, carefully with gradual aggression until the operator has thoroughly reaquianted themselves with the vehicle in it's new form.

But you don't need to do any upgrades in order to have fun with the car and drive it on a track. When pushed, these cars can be more than a handful for a novice driver.

What I am saying is that track time is the best thing you can do if you want to become a better driver, and thus make your car perform better. Modifications make the car better, but not the driver. Also, if a novice track driver jumps right in with a high-performance car or a heavily modified one, they probably won't have the skill to keep themselves out of trouble, despite the sticky tires or better brakes, etc etc.

If you can't drive with 50hp, 500 won't make it any better.

[Too Cold NB1.8T]

Originally Posted by NYBugman

But you don't need to do any upgrades in order to have fun with the car and drive it on a track. When pushed, these cars can be more than a handful for a novice driver.

What I am saying is that track time is the best thing you can do if you want to become a better driver, and thus make your car perform better. Modifications make the car better, but not the driver. Also, if a novice track driver jumps right in with a high-performance car or a heavily modified one, they probably won't have the skill to keep themselves out of trouble, despite the sticky tires or better brakes, etc etc.

If you can't drive with 50hp, 500 won't make it any better.

My comments were not made in disagreement, anyone who carefully reads and comprehends what I said in my last post will see that I in fact agree for the most part with what you were saying.

I simply furthered this by explaining that with every modification that is applied to a vehicle, the owner should approach the operation of his/her vehicle as if he/she has never driven it before, cautiously.

At a given level such as with maybe a Beetle with 300HP/350Lb.Ft. of TQ up, this may not be a good place for a person with moderate driving experience to start, however, a Beetle that produces possibly 135WHP to 200WHP or so, anyone can handle this if they approach it slowly and drive with in their means as I previously suggested, especially if they are obtaining lesson from a certified driving instructor.

Novis and highly experienced riders hop on 130+HP super bikes all the time, riders on either end of this experience range get into unnecessary and avoidable accidents regularly and many from both levels of experience have never laid their bike down, even after riding a great number of years.

What it boils down to first is the level of common sense an individual posses and uses, if a person has no common sense or self control (which is often the case) then all of the experience in the world won't save them from the eventually consequences of their reckless behavior.

Most people are typically in too much of a "thoughtless hurry" to do whatever it is they are doing and/or they simply don't pay close attention to what they are doing, this is primarily where problems tend to occur, not from what's under the hood.

[Too Cold NB1.8T]

K03-K04 software files normally range from about $399 to $550 depending on the company, when switching from a K03 to a K04 file, some companies don't give a discount which would force you to spend full price on the new chip.

I can get a new K04 for about $800, fluids, plugs, gaskets/seals etc. are maybe another $200, if you are doing the installation yourself, this job will cost you well under $2000.00.