Oil change advice sought

[jimpascale]

Hello All,
I'm going to change the oil in my wife's car - a first time event for me.
Using the search tool on this NG Turbomania posted some great advice (TY Turbomania). So, subject your advice, this is how I intend to proceed. If I left anything out please let me know - I want to do this right.

Materials needed:
-Mobil1 0W40
-Mobil1 M1 -205 filter
-new "crush" ring
-T20 torx bit to remove paneling (I assume this means the under protection shroud?)

Process:
-remove under protection shroud
-drain oil
-replace plug with new "crush" ring
-remove oil filter (what tool do I need to do this? Will this tool help:
:: ECS Tuning :: Schwaben Large Oil Filter Removal Tool - Now Available !!!
-oil filter is located on the left side of the engine (the front)(please don't laugh, but this means under the car, behind the protection shroud, right?)
-fill filter with oil before putting on
-coat rubber gasket to form a good seal
-fill with 4.5 qts. of oil (that's all I have to do from the top of the engine, right? No need to remove anything up top?
That's it.
Did I leave anything out?
Is the sequencing correct?
Wish me luck.
Thanks very much.
Regards,
Jim

[Blugg]

Found this if it helps























Some of these may help, others you probably don't need, but i thought i'd put up everything i had Oh .. And Good Luck

[jimpascale]

Blugg,
Great information - ty very much!
Regards,
Jim

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by jimpascale

Hello All,
I'm going to change the oil in my wife's car - a first time event for me.
Using the search tool on this NG Turbomania posted some great advice (TY Turbomania). So, subject your advice, this is how I intend to proceed. If I left anything out please let me know - I want to do this right.

Materials needed:
-Mobil1 0W40
-Mobil1 M1 -205 filter
-new "crush" ring
-T20 torx bit to remove paneling (I assume this means the under protection shroud?)

Process:
-remove under protection shroud
-drain oil
-replace plug with new "crush" ring
-remove oil filter (what tool do I need to do this? Will this tool help:
:: ECS Tuning :: Schwaben Large Oil Filter Removal Tool - Now Available !!!
-Regards,
Jim

Actually a very simple procedure and even the oil filter is fairly easy to get to. I usually change the oil filter first to get it out of the way, then drain the oil but that is just personal preference. No need for such an expensive and ugly oil filter wrench from ECS tuning. Just go to Autozone, take the M1 205 Oil filter and match it up to one of the 3 dollar oil filter socket wrenches they have for sale. No special tool required. I use a small extension with my Oil filter socket wrench and it works very well.
I never even had to raise the car in order to get to the oil filter or the drain plug. Just remove the very small belly pan (4 screws) and then go at it. Takes about 10-15 minutes to change the oil. No luck needed but Good Luck anyways

[jimpascale]

Ty Tom.

[jimpascale]

BTW,how many miles, maximum, should be driven, before changes of Mobil 1 0W40 oil?
TY
Jim

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by jimpascale

BTW,how many miles, maximum, should be driven, before changes of Mobil 1 0W40 oil?
TY
Jim

That depends on who you ask. The 1.8 Turbo generates a lot of heat and works harder than the other motors in the VW line up. Personally, I change my oil every 4000-5000 miles.

[silverliquid1013]

Quick Question:

The temperatures referenced in the viscosity chart are for ambient temperatures, right?

Thanks.
-P

[dmbluebeetle]

Yes, BUT if you have a Turbo, you should use the VW approved Synthetic oil which has the VW502/505 style wording in the description on the back of the bottle.

[Blugg]

Originally Posted by dmbluebeetle

Yes, BUT if you have a Turbo, you should use the VW approved Synthetic oil which has the VW502/505 style wording in the description on the back of the bottle.

After my chat with MORAV on here, i went to VW to get some of the right oil

Gave them my car registration, it came up the year model etc.

But then they asked me if it has regular servicing or just occasional servicing. I said regular and was given an oil used for both diesel and petrol Bugs.

Bottles in the Bug and it's dark out. Can't remember the what rating it was. But the other bottle 1ltr was twice as much. I thought they'd just give me one choice as per my 1.6 Bug

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by dmbluebeetle

Yes, BUT if you have a Turbo, you should use the VW approved Synthetic oil which has the VW502/505 style wording in the description on the back of the bottle.

Mobil One 0W40 is 502/505 VW approved. So is Castrol 0w30 European Formula and also Castrol Edge 5W40

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted by silverliquid1013

Quick Question:

The temperatures referenced in the viscosity chart are for ambient temperatures, right?

Thanks.
-P

That info shown on temperature is old..VW actually does not recommend a viscosity; they recommend a specification, In the case of the 1.8 its VW 502.

GC 0W30 meets that spec as does M1 0W40 and Syntec 5W40.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Damn, great little thread!

Note the oil capacities, put up by Blugg, yeah Blugg, who'da thought!



Fill with four qts and then check level, continue to fill as necessary.

To the viscosity question, yes, as IT said, use oil that meets spec, not viscosity requirement. don't be concerned with oil weight v. where you live, climatic conditions, winter/summer etc. And I don't give a $hit what people say, there ARE differences in oil and filters. Just research using Google. Mobil 1 0w40 is THE only true Class 4 full syn of any major producer, and is my oil of choice for the NB, along with the Mobil 1 filter. Looking hard at Royal Purple, but aa little pricey, and never any specials.

I have, and have had, numerous vehicles with a quarter of a million miles plus, some over 400k miles, that never had anything put in them but Castrol GTX and now Castrol GTX high mileage. Today's high quality oils are so good, and I clock miles so fast, that sometimes these vehicles have gone 20-25k miles between changes. When I believed in, and was doing, 3k mile changes, I had vehicles that were getting there oil changed every week, became a sort of joke at the Corner Oil Changer. I'm not encouraging anyone to NOT change their oil as scheduled, but certainly no reason to do it any sooner.

M.

[mullardel34]

I'm not looking to start a motor-oil urination contest ("My Papa can beat-up your motor-oil... "), but you should know that Mobil 1 is no longer a pure synthetic motor-oil; here are the back-story highlights...

Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized). Synthetic oil is used as a substitute for lubricant refined from petroleum when operating in extremes of temperature, because, in general, it provides superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils. Synthetic motor oils are, by American Petroleum Institute (API) definition, man-made oils derived from the Polyalphaolefin (PAO) Group IV base-oil class of lubricants.

Originally, Mobil 1 was a pure Group IV-based full-synthetic motor-oil. However, back around 2001-2002, Mobil sued Castrol to prevent Catrol from marketing their engine-oil as a full synthetic. Mobil's position in the lawsuit was that Castrol wasn't a full synthetic like M1 since it wasn't made exclusively from a Group IV base stock.

Mobil lost the court case (the legal decision came down to the definition of "synthetic" in a motor-oil context; the NAD ruled that Castrol Synthetic was legally a "synthetic" motor-oil for this reason: the NAD consulted chemical reference manuals for the definition of "synthetic". The wording in the manuals stated that a substance need only be "changed substantially" to be considered "synthetic". Blended G-III/G-IV motor-oils met this definition in the courtroom), so Mobil decided to start blending Group IV-based base stock with cheaper hydrocarbon-based Group-III base stock just like the competition. After all, why make a full synthetic motor-oil that costs you more money to produce than the competition's product who is charging the same price for their "fake"/blended synthetic?

German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil and Redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics (i.e., exclusively derived from Group IV base stock). The other Castrol syntecs, Penzzoil platinum and now Mobile 1 are not TRUE synthetics.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by mullardel34

German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil and Redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics (i.e., exclusively derived from Group IV base stock). The other Castrol syntecs, Penzzoil platinum and now Mobile 1 are not TRUE synthetics.

WHAT!!***???XXX Does Obama know about this?

[mullardel34]

Lowly politicians know nothing about any of these high-level business dealings. Hell, we're talking about Better Business Bureau jurisdiction!

Mobil simply filed a complaint with the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Better Business Bureau in the US claiming that Castrol was engaging in false advertising by calling Syntec "full synthetic" since it was now being made with Group III base oil. Castrol was able to present enough "evidence" to convince the NAD that Group III base oil could legitimately be called synthetic, so they rulled in Castrol's favor. This ruling has no "legal" standing. It merely means that as far as the NAD is concerned, an oil company is not falsely advertising an oil as "full synthetic" if that oil is made from Group III base oil.

The NAD is merely a self-regulatory arm of the BBB and has no legal standing whatsoever in the U.S. Hence, their ruling in this matter does not make it "legal" to claim that a Group III oil is "synthetic." It merely means that for any entity willing to abide by the NAD's guidelines, a Group III oil can be ADVERTISED under those guidelines as a synthetic.

My personal preference is to use a Group-IV full synthetic engine-oil, but everyone should be "good to go" as long as whatever they're putting in their VW meets the VW 502.00 engine-oil specifications. I'm just providing a bit of background information for those interested in what all of the hubbub is about with regards to "real" synthetics versus blended synthetic engine-oils.

So, we're talking about what constitutes "truth in advertising", that's all...

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by mullardel34

I'm not looking to start a motor-oil urination contest ("My Papa can beat-up your motor-oil... "), but you should know that Mobil 1 is no longer a pure synthetic motor-oil; here are the back-story highlights...

Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized). Synthetic oil is used as a substitute for lubricant refined from petroleum when operating in extremes of temperature, because, in general, it provides superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils. Synthetic motor oils are, by American Petroleum Institute (API) definition, man-made oils derived from the Polyalphaolefin (PAO) Group IV base-oil class of lubricants.

Originally, Mobil 1 was a pure Group IV-based full-synthetic motor-oil. However, back around 2001-2002, Mobil sued Castrol to prevent Catrol from marketing their engine-oil as a full synthetic. Mobil's position in the lawsuit was that Castrol wasn't a full synthetic like M1 since it wasn't made exclusively from a Group IV base stock.

Mobil lost the court case (the legal decision came down to the definition of "synthetic" in a motor-oil context; the NAD ruled that Castrol Synthetic was legally a "synthetic" motor-oil for this reason: the NAD consulted chemical reference manuals for the definition of "synthetic". The wording in the manuals stated that a substance need only be "changed substantially" to be considered "synthetic". Blended G-III/G-IV motor-oils met this definition in the courtroom), so Mobil decided to start blending Group IV-based base stock with cheaper hydrocarbon-based Group-III base stock just like the competition. After all, why make a full synthetic motor-oil that costs you more money to produce than the competition's product who is charging the same price for their "fake"/blended synthetic?

German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil and Redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics (i.e., exclusively derived from Group IV base stock). The other Castrol syntecs, Penzzoil platinum and now Mobile 1 are not TRUE synthetics.

$hit, I don't want this thread locked and moved into the "Hot-Topic" Forum. LMAO!

I want to know more about this Mobil 1 thing, especially because of my strong belief in their products. I would never make the statement Mobil 1 or Castrol products are the "best", just maybe the best for the money. Without question, I have considered Amsoil products to be of the best in the industry, but because of what I consider to be the high quality of both Castrol and Mobil 1 products, could never justify in my mind the significantly higher cost for the type of cars and driving we are talking about on this forum. If I was on a racing forum, discussing race engine lubricants, I would be talking differently. But then the cost of lubricants becomes an absolute moot point, it's all about protecting a huge investment.

I believe you are saying what you believe to be correct, and may very well be correct, but I'd like to read the published information. You seem to be a lot like me and read and research. We are all at the mercy of what is written and then have to decide how accurate that information is. It appears as if you have some very reputable source(s).

My statement, regarding Class IV synthetics and Mobil 1 specifically came from a competitiors informational pages explaining many things about motor oils in general. This was probably the best all around read I have seen covering many of the numerous aspects, and, at least outwardly, appearing to be non-self-serving. The specific information concerning Mobil 1/Class IV, is stated as current as of 12/15/2007
Motor Oil Viscosity Grades Explained in Layman's Terms
There is a lot to be learned about lubricants, viscosities, synthetics, etc, from this webpage, keeping the product "puffing", which I find to be minimal, in perspective.

M.

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted by mullardel34

German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil and Redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics (i.e., exclusively derived from Group IV base stock). The other Castrol syntecs, Penzzoil platinum and now Mobile 1 are not TRUE synthetics.

This information is correct.

Mobil 1 0W40 may be a true synthetic but as they don't revel what base stocks they use in it we can only speculate. Most of the other Mobil 1 oils have moved to a group III. No oils are 100% Group V or 100% Group IV. They are a blend of the two. Redline used majority Group V with some Group IV. The others like GC 0W30 do the opposite..

Group III oils are very good as well, and are considered to be 100% synthetic in all places except in Germany.

[mullardel34]

Morav,

I share your stated goal of putting the best-for-the-money engine-oil in my vehicles, which are daily-drivers, not competition race-cars. As I stated earlier, I'm really not trying to prompt a urination contest, but my personal belief is that Group-IV-based motor-oils offer a significant benefit for those of us trying to extend the lifespan of our automotive toys. The blended Group-III/IV oils can initially offer similar performance at a lower cost, but casual engine-oil burn-off can significantly alter the effective engine-oil parameters.

In a PAO/Group-IV synthetic the viscosity is inherent at a molecular level, so if some oil consumption occurs due to heat or burn-off, what is left behind retains the same viscosity. Not so with the Group III base oils. In the petroleum-based Group III engine-oils, they average to a viscosity but actually have varying amounts of light and heavy oils in the mix. Any burn-off or volatility of the oil usually sees the lighter elements burn off first and leaves behind the heavier elements. In time the oil's viscosity becomes thicker. As an example look at the amount of volatility you see in a typical synthetic made from PAO/Group-IV base oils. It is much less, but still slightly occurs. Why? Because even the PAO/Group-IV engine-oils need additives and those additives are mixed into a petroleum base oil carrier. This is how the additives are introduced into the engine-oil. Therefore when a Group IV PAO is additized, it receives some petroleum and it's that small amount of petroleum that is volatile. In the Group III engine-oils the volatility will be higher than the Group IV. That's just chemistry. The Group-III engine-oils do better than the Group II oils, and that is expected, but cannot compete with the PAO-based Group-IV engine-oils under high levels of mechanical duress or high-heat operation.

As to reference sources, the link I previously used to access the BBB/NAD PDF-based document now reports the file is no longer available. The best backup source that I could locate is a write-up on Amsoil's Web site:

Mobil Castrol Syntec Dispute Misleading Definition Word Synthetic

While Amsoil can hardly be considered an impartial third-party to the conversation, Amsoil is certainly a reputable manufacturer of Group-IV engine-oil products. I find their write-up of the conflict to be straightforward and reasonably balanced. I recall a comment in a Car&Driver article on the subject noted that one insider stated that Mobil started this quasi-legal action because Castrol used the SYNTEC marketing label while Mobil was thinking about using the term as their product name...

I shared your affinity for Mobil 1 back in the day when it was the original Group-IV-based engine-oil. And I understand their decision to move their product to a blended Group-III/Group-IV offering; after all, business is business. But the "Mobil versus Castrol" discourse now boils-down to semantics regarding the definition of "synthetic" as the term is applied to engine-oils for advertising purposes (which I could personally care less about...); I just want a Group-IV engine-oil for my cars and all of the marketing mumbo-jumbo just makes it more difficult for me to determine which engine-oils will meet my requirements.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by mullardel34

I just want a Group-IV engine-oil for my cars and all of the marketing mumbo-jumbo just makes it more difficult for me to determine which engine-oils will meet my requirements.

So lets forget about all that Mumbo Jumbo and go back to the good old days of Kendall 10W40