Beetle Newb but not new to the 1.8L

[Jason L]

So do have one question we picked up a 03 1.8T 5spd Beetle, and it has been great but 1 odd thing. When you start the car when it's warm literally 3 seconds after start you hear a noise that sounds almost like you hold the starter to long and it is a slight almost grind noise. It sounds like a starter holding on a tad too long.

It's nothing like a bearing or engine noise it is for sure an accessory noise, Do these have an electronic starter where when you turn the key you can let it go and it starts or do you need to hold it till it starts, or maybe someone has heard the same thing happen?

Haven't tried starting it out of gear yet but could try that I suppose.

TIA
Jason

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Jason L

So do have one question we picked up a 03 1.8T 5spd Beetle, and it has been great but 1 odd thing. When you start the car when it's warm literally 3 seconds after start you hear a noise that sounds almost like you hold the starter to long and it is a slight almost grind noise. It sounds like a starter holding on a tad too long.

It's nothing like a bearing or engine noise it is for sure an accessory noise, Do these have an electronic starter where when you turn the key you can let it go and it starts or do you need to hold it till it starts, or maybe someone has heard the same thing happen?

Haven't tried starting it out of gear yet but could try that I suppose.

TIA
Jason

So what you are saying is that you start your car when it is in gear? That is a big NO NO you Know Even if you push in the clutch there is always the possibilty of the gears not fully disengaging during start up. Always start the car in Neutral and with the clutch pushed down. Never heard that noise which you describe. Have you tested the clutch to see if it slips? Go down a quiet street and accellerate up to 30mph Put transmission into 4th gear and floor it. If the rpms go up but your car isn't accellerating then your clutch may be on the way out. Usually happens in the upper gears first.

But yes, start it in Neutral from now on and see if you still hear that noise.

Good Luck and Welcome to the ORG

[Jason L]

Tried out of gear too, does it still, clutch is holding fine tested that already.

[Smileybug]

The grind is likely a dirty starter. I had that in my '99. It only really did it when it was cold out. If that's what it is, its just dirty and not really an issue, more of an annoyance. You can clean it, but it will eventually get dirty again and make the same sound. Do a search around here for the starter issue. Seems to be common enough.


And that's the first I've heard of not starting the car in gear. I've started the car in gear for years and never had any sort of issue.

[Jason L]

Yeah, I dunno I start my Truck and my GTO in gear all the time, the Bug is the lil ladies car, she is super excited about it! I will clean the starter out and see what's up

Thank you

[Smileybug]

Here is a thread on here about the dirty starter problem. A DIY for cleaning it is linked in there as well: Concerning sound at startup...

[D2Beetle]

Have you considered the secondary water pump?

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by Jason L

So do have one question we picked up a 03 1.8T 5spd Beetle, and it has been great but 1 odd thing. When you start the car when it's warm literally 3 seconds after start you hear a noise that sounds almost like you hold the starter to long and it is a slight almost grind noise. It sounds like a starter holding on a tad too long.

It's nothing like a bearing or engine noise it is for sure an accessory noise, Do these have an electronic starter where when you turn the key you can let it go and it starts or do you need to hold it till it starts, or maybe someone has heard the same thing happen?

Haven't tried starting it out of gear yet but could try that I suppose.

TIA
Jason

I've read through the comments, both here and on the link to the Bendix "cleaning" post. [Bendix is an antiquated design, Bendix drives haven't been used in starters since sometime in the Sixties]

Without hearing it myself I can't tell you for sure, but what you are describing sounds like the pinion gear is staying engaged in the starter ring gear on the flywheel. Under normal starting when the key is released, and power cut to the starter, a spring pulls the pinion gear out ring gear. Failure of this can be caused by either dirt in the spring, the spring failing, or the power not being cut by the ignition switch. Sporatic incidents are typical regardless of the cause.

If it is a spring issue with the pinion gear, you will not do any damage to the starter motor. Without going into detail, the starter pinion gear will turn the engine, but the engine will not drive the starter, by design in the way the pinion gear is driven by the starter shaft. However, and contrary to those saying no damage will occur, when this happens the starter ring gear "chews" at the teeth on the pinion gear, and damages the pinion gear very quickly.

I have an employee dealing with this same situation right now. He thought it was (well, wanted it to be) a problem with the starter, he replaced it, it is the ignition switch, and from just happening two times, since replacing the starter, the pinion gear is damaged now on the new one.

It's pretty much a crap shoot as to which one is the problem in your girl's Bug, but as problematic as the ignition switches are, you might want to have a look at the wiring.

This thread is a good read about the ignition switch wiring, ignition switch, and why to never buy an aftermarket one. Always OEM, real OEM.
Another ignition switch issue.

MORAV

[janitz]

My 98 also did this, after starting it would grind for a bit, getting progressively worse. This was several years ago. We replaced the starter. The mechanic told us it was due to dust but was also a sign of potential future issues.

[Krash]

Listen to this YouTube video, (unknown originator)

Engine Mount Test - YouTube

Shortly after the engine is started you will here a noise from the starter (about 10 seconds into the video) If this is the same noise you are hearing then it is due to a dry / dirty starter.


Krash

[Jason L]

That is the exact sound thank you!

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by Jason L

That is the exact sound thank you!

Excellent, now you have confirmed the pinion gear is "sticking" in the starter ring gear, so as said above...

I've read through the comments, both here and on the link to the Bendix "cleaning" post. [Bendix is an antiquated design, Bendix drives haven't been used in starters since sometime in the Sixties]

Without hearing it myself I can't tell you for sure, but what you are describing sounds like the pinion gear is staying engaged in the starter ring gear on the flywheel. Under normal starting when the key is released, and power cut to the starter, a spring pulls the pinion gear out ring gear. Failure of this can be caused by either dirt in the spring, the spring failing, or the power not being cut by the ignition switch. Sporatic incidents are typical regardless of the cause.

If it is a spring issue with the pinion gear, you will not do any damage to the starter motor. Without going into detail, the starter pinion gear will turn the engine, but the engine will not drive the starter, by design in the way the pinion gear is driven by the starter shaft. However, and contrary to those saying no damage will occur, when this happens the starter ring gear "chews" at the teeth on the pinion gear, and damages the pinion gear very quickly.

I have an employee dealing with this same situation right now. He thought it was (well, wanted it to be) a problem with the starter, he replaced it, it is the ignition switch, and from just happening two times, since replacing the starter, the pinion gear is damaged now on the new one.

It's pretty much a crap shoot as to which one is the problem in your girl's Bug, but as problematic as the ignition switches are, you might want to have a look at the wiring.

This thread is a good read about the ignition switch wiring, ignition switch, and why to never buy an aftermarket one. Always OEM, real OEM.
Another ignition switch issue.

MORAV

[Jason L]

Thank you! Very informative