2002 Turbo S with 90k miles... should I buy?

[Johnny5]

So I've been trying to digest a ton of info from this site but I admit it's a bit tough with the search feature here.

I need a daily driver, and I've pretty much convinced myself I want a beetle. I've looked at quite a few... including a 2002 Turbo S with 90,000 I've been looking at. Should I stay away?

It is super clean, clearly well taken care of and the previous owner had it APR tuned (still pulling details on that, I'll know more tomorrow - it does have an EPL tuning sticker on the side). I certainly don't want or need the APR tuning and I'm afraid it would hurt reliability? I need this car to go another 90k at least. I am looking at it from a dealer who has been seemingly honest about the car, it was a trade in at a local dealer that he bought wholesale. He had his mechanic go through it, I asked about the timing belt and the mechanic said he doesn't know when but it was definitely changed as it is not an original stock belt.

Car is absolutely mint and gorgeous but I figured I'd glean some opinions here.

**Edit - BTW, it'll be my first Beetle, but I have owned an old Rabbit which I drove into the ground, an 02' (or so) Jetta Wolfberg, and most recently an '05 Golf TDI.

Thx,
J

[SixChuter]

My Turbo S is my daily driver and I wouldn't want any other car. Sorry, but I don't know anything about APR tuning. Have you driven the car? Got any pics?

[Johnny5]

Originally Posted by SixChuter

My Turbo S is my daily driver and I wouldn't want any other car. Sorry, but I don't know anything about APR tuning. Have you driven the car? Got any pics?

Sure here's a pic... driving it tomorrow morning

How many miles on yours?

[SixChuter]

Gandalf is an '04 and just rolled over 68K. Enjoy the drive.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Johnny5

So I've been trying to digest a ton of info from this site but I admit it's a bit tough with the search feature here.

I need a daily driver, and I've pretty much convinced myself I want a beetle. I've looked at quite a few... including a 2002 Turbo S with 90,000 I've been looking at. Should I stay away?

It is super clean, clearly well taken care of and the previous owner had it APR tuned (still pulling details on that, I'll know more tomorrow - it does have an EPL tuning sticker on the side). I certainly don't want or need the APR tuning and I'm afraid it would hurt reliability? I need this car to go another 90k at least. I am looking at it from a dealer who has been seemingly honest about the car, it was a trade in at a local dealer that he bought wholesale. He had his mechanic go through it, I asked about the timing belt and the mechanic said he doesn't know when but it was definitely changed as it is not an original stock belt.

Car is absolutely mint and gorgeous but I figured I'd glean some opinions here.

**Edit - BTW, it'll be my first Beetle, but I have owned an old Rabbit which I drove into the ground, an 02' (or so) Jetta Wolfberg, and most recently an '05 Golf TDI.

Thx,
J

THE APR tune will not hurt your drivability one bit. It will make the car a lot more enjoyable to drive. A lot quicker off the line all the way up through 6th gear. Also if it was APR tuned you may be able to switch to stock mode via your stalk that houses the cruise control. If the previous owner had the option installed. Usually, they run specials that if you get their tune you get 3 or 4 other options. Like switching form Performance mode to Stock mode, Valet mode. Different Octane settings. Like 91 Octane, 93 Octane and 100 Octane settings where available. Even if it only has the standard setting you will be pleased with the performance difference. I have my Beetle tuned and it is like night and day. It increased your Hp from 180 to 230 and the torque to close to 250lbs. Trust me if you drive a tuned car you will never go back to stock.

Now, it is important to check a few things. If it was APR tuned it probably already has an aftermarket diverter valve. The stock unit won't last very long after the car was tuned.
The timing belt service, including the timing belt, accessory belt, water pump, thermostat, tensioner and pulley is very important. If there are no definite receipts than it is something you should do just to put your mind to rest. I hate to gamble if it was done or not and then when it breaks your engine is pretty much done and the repairs will cost you a bundle (Probably more than the car) Parts for this service are about 254 bucks for the 1.8 regardless if it is a Turbo S or not. You can probably do it yourself on a weekend. The dealer will probably charge you between 1100 and 1600 bucks to perform this service. But there are VW shops out there that will do it for around $750. I have a place here in Indy that does it for $450 but that is very rare.

Also when you test drive it make sure the clutch isn't slipping. Do so by driving it down the street at about 30mph then shift it to 4th gear and floor it. If the RPM's climb rapidly but you are not moving very fast then your clutch is on the way out. This will start with the upper gears like 4th and 5th etc. And will soon effect the lower gears as well.
A new clutch will cost you about $350-400 bucks plus installation if you can't do it yourself.

Look over the car very carefully and make sure no check engine lights are on. REmove the plastic engine cover and look underneath for any oil leaks around the valve cover especially on the right side (drivers side by the transmission). There is a half moon seal that is prone to leakage and if it does you will need to replace it along with the flat seal and the valve cover gasket. Check out the coolant cap and make sure there aren't any leaks. The old style caps tend to start breaking and not sealing properly. They changed the design of the cooling cap and you can get a new one for about 8 bucks or about 25 from the dealer.

Other than that just look it over. Drive it carefully and don't forget to smile

Now go and get yourself that Beetle

[SMG]

Yes

[Johnny5]

Thanks guys, Awesome info Indy Tom very much appreciated! I'll check back and post after I drive it. It's priced at $5995 as of right now, seems like a decent price... we'll see...

[dnyed]

getitgetitgetit.....Oh, sorry, was thinking out loud.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Johnny5

Thanks guys, Awesome info Indy Tom very much appreciated! I'll check back and post after I drive it. It's priced at $5995 as of right now, seems like a decent price... we'll see...

It is a pretty good price but there is always room for negotiation. Heck, I got my dealer down 2300 bucks before I bought my Beetle Don't just take the price as it stands.
Negotiate! Offer them 3000 Cash. They won't take it so they will come back with a counter offer etc. I bet they will let you have it for about $4000-4500

Good Luck! Let us know how it went.

PS: When you drive it listen for noises like rattles and bumps. Also make sure those coolant fans work. Also when you turn on the ignition but not starting it yet listen to see if the coolant fans turn on. They shouldn't and if they do there is an issue with the thermal Temp switch. Not a big thing to fix but will give you room for negotiation.

Good Luck!

[warren]

Originally Posted by dnyed

getitgetitgetit.....Oh, sorry, was thinking out loud.

x2.

great post by IndyTom on what to look for.

my bug has close to 170,000 miles on the clock...it's been extremely reliable and economical to operate since day one, and Ikiane got an Upsolute chip at around 100K miles...just pulled 29 MPG on my last tank of gas in a mix of city and highway driving.

certainly worth a long look. good luck!

[esse10]

If it's from a used car lot I would put an OBD II scanner on the computer to see if there are any hidden codes. Sometimes mechanics will reset all codes by temporarily disconnecting the battery and those codes will not appear untill later on, ie; like the catalytic problem( you have to drive the car for quite a few miles 150-175 before it gives you the code again and the check engine light if there's a problem. Just fyi.

Really cute little black car man....my next beetle will be a fixer-upper bright yellow to go along with my Babyblue.

Good luck man and welcome to the org. forum.

[2004NBTURBOS]

The price is good. Always try to haggle. But if they wont budge, it's still worth the asking price. I have seen people pay way more for a standard NB. But were talkin bout a TS here. The fun factor is 10times of a regular NB. Good luck, I hope ya get it.
If ya get a chance fill in your user profile. There might be a fellow Orger near you.

[Opelmania]

Originally Posted by 2004NBTURBOS

The price is good. Always try to haggle. But if they wont budge, it's still worth the asking price. I have seen people pay way more for a standard NB. But were talkin bout a TS here. The fun factor is 10times of a regular NB. Good luck, I hope ya get it.
If ya get a chance fill in your user profile. There might be a fellow Orger near you.

The price is real good especially with a tune. Great info Tom!

Yeah definitely fill in your profile so we can snatch that sweet black TS up before you do!

[Johnny5]

I drove it... and passed on it. Dissappointing... I thought I might be driving it home today. Not enough maintenance info on it, although it did list the 4 options for the tune Indy Tom mentioned. That thing was running extremely rough, seemed like the clutch was slipping, and it felt like it was going to rattle to pieces on the road. It was pretty clean for the most part on the outside, although that aftermarket fin in the back was looking kinda rough. I'll post the link if anyone is interested.

Actually it looks like I may be buying a super clean 03 GLS turbo instead. Much, much better condition and lower mileage, for around the same price.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Johnny5

I drove it... and passed on it. Dissappointing... I thought I might be driving it home today. Not enough maintenance info on it, although it did list the 4 options for the tune Indy Tom mentioned. That thing was running extremely rough, seemed like the clutch was slipping, and it felt like it was going to rattle to pieces on the road. It was pretty clean for the most part on the outside, although that aftermarket fin in the back was looking kinda rough. I'll post the link if anyone is interested.

Actually it looks like I may be buying a super clean 03 GLS turbo instead. Much, much better condition and lower mileage, for around the same price.

Good Choice! You don't want to buy a questionable beetle. If it rattled and the clutch was slipping it was probably ridden pretty hard. Buying a Beetle with problems is not a good idea since the costs to repair and keep it running could be staggering.

Now tell us about that 03 GLS Make sure it's a Manual. A clutch is a lot cheaper and easier to repair than an automatic transmission.

[dnyed]

Awww, how sad. In two ways....the PO didn't take good care of it, and you won't be driving it. How sad.

[Johnny5]

Heh, yep it was sad! Indy Tom, That 03 Turbo is actually a GL not a GLS... not sure what the difference is, it has everything but leather and a sunroof. 85,000 miles, looks like it was garaged it's whole life, minus some door dings it pretty much looks brand new. Gun metal gray, Drove really nice, really smooth. Had some minor things done, new rubber, new rear rotors and pads, fog light bulbs and harness... Needs a timing belt change though, so I'm stuck negotiating that... that is the sticker at this point otherwise I would have bought it today. There is an outside shot for another silver Turbo GLS I'm looking at with 92k, really nice....but that guy is a bit crazy with his pricing.

**Edit - Oh yeah... I won't even look at an automatic... only clutch and stick for me! lol

[wawalker]

Good decision. I owned an 03 TS and I loved it-drove it up to 97K w/o any real issues, but I wouldn't own another one--only because of the 6 speed manual, especially the 02 models. The 6 speeds just don't seem to be as stout as the 5 speeds, and to top it off 5 speed rebuilts are readily available (with the known issues bulletproofed) and cheap compared to 6 speeds. You said it had 90k and you wanted to add another 90k on top of that--frankly, I'd worry. I have an 03 GTI now w/ the 5 speed and am at 117K and rolling to 200k some time in 2016.

[Smileybug]

The 6-speeds are fine. Shift fork issues are the only thing I know of with them. But it isn't as common as say, valve body failure in an auto. I have 117k on my GTI 20thAE (Which is a 6-speed) and its doing great. I'd own other one without hesitation. Any manual is going to be pretty time tested and stout. Yes, the 5-speed are a bit better, but the 6-speed is nothing to be scared of. When you can turn 3k at 70mph rather than at 60, I'm all for it! Plus, that extra gear is tons of fun

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Johnny5

Heh, yep it was sad! Indy Tom, That 03 Turbo is actually a GL not a GLS... not sure what the difference is, it has everything but leather and a sunroof. 85,000 miles, looks like it was garaged it's whole life, minus some door dings it pretty much looks brand new. Gun metal gray, Drove really nice, really smooth. Had some minor things done, new rubber, new rear rotors and pads, fog light bulbs and harness... Needs a timing belt change though, so I'm stuck negotiating that... that is the sticker at this point otherwise I would have bought it today. There is an outside shot for another silver Turbo GLS I'm looking at with 92k, really nice....but that guy is a bit crazy with his pricing.

**Edit - Oh yeah... I won't even look at an automatic... only clutch and stick for me! lol

The GL just means it is the base Model of the Beetle series. No leather, no fog light, no heated seats,no sun roof etc.. Kinda surprising since they hardly sold any GL models here in the US. If it is in excellent shape and has been taken care off then it is better than a GLS or GLX model that has been treated badly. If you drove it and have a good feeling about it then I would go for it. 85k miles is pretty low miles for a 2003. I have a 2000 and am way over 160k. Still runs GREAT and I love that little Beetle. According to Kelly Blue Book a GL of that year in good condition is still worth about $4500 but I would negotiate that a bit especially since the Timing belt service hasn't been done that. From a dealer that will set you back between 1100 and 1600 bucks. Or from a VW/Euro shop around $750. Or you can try and do it yourself for about $250 bucks in parts.

How much does the guy with the Silver GLS want? What year is it?

Good Luck to you and I hope you find the right beetle that suits you best.