I need opinions on brakes!

[janitz]

Originally Posted by Oh Randi

wait, so, I should brake until going maybe 5 or 10 mph, coast to almost a complete stop to allow brakes to cool then apply brakes if I need to? like if I'm rolling forward or backward?

thanks for mentioning I'll smell the brakes.. I didn't know that and would probably panic thinking I did something wrong lol

I think what they mean is that you slow down to 10Mph then speed back up to 60mph and wait a few minutes for the air moving quickly over the brakes to cool them down.

Sitting still the brakes won't cool down as quickly as they would with air moving over the surface.

You'll need a nice quiet highway for this.

[Oh Randi]

Originally Posted by janitz

I think what they mean is that you slow down to 10Mph then speed back up to 60mph and wait a few minutes for the air moving quickly over the brakes to cool them down.

Sitting still the brakes won't cool down as quickly as they would with air moving over the surface.

You'll need a nice quiet highway for this.

haha that was my next question. I have no idea where to do this at.

[janitz]

Originally Posted by Oh Randi

haha that was my next question. I have no idea where to do this at.

I'd likely do it on the highway by my home, during the day the traffic is very light as there are only farmers and acreages around.

[nitroman]

Originally Posted by janitz

This is something I believe I'd like to do as well coming up this summer.

In addition to the pads and rotors, will we need to purchase any other parts that are supposed to be replaced when doing this kind of work?

I just did my rear brakes (finally, after 2 nights - yes I'm a sucky home mechanic). I just followed this guide:

"How To" Replace your Pads and Rotors (Front and Rear)

As for additional parts needed, I would consider these things:

1. Caliper wind back tool, such as something like this:

Home Page > Search > Caliper Tool > ES#9747 11 - Piece Brake Caliper Piston Tool Set - PBK-11PCS

If you don't want to buy you should be able to loan out for free from autozone or some other parts store.

2. Caliper bolts - these are the ones that go into the guide pins (they were 13mm for me). They are *supposedly* one time use bolts. My new pads came with new bolts. Or else, I read that you can buy them from the dealer (though I asked and my dealer won't sell them separately from the pads). Otherwise I also read that you could re-use the old bolts just re-apply some loctite blue near the end.

3. Optional - Caliper mounting bracket bolts (if your car is fairly old). These are the ones that go into the mounting bracket (for me they were 8mm hex allen key bolts). Mine were really rusted on bad and the hex threads were stripped. I bought new ones from the dealer for $2 each. Or you can just get them off, measure them and bring them to any hardware store and buy new ones (I was just lazy).

4. Optional - the metal pad retaining clips (for the rears). My Haynes manual said these should be replaced, but I think only OEM pads come with new ones. Again my dealer wouldn't sell these separately but you may have better luck. Otherwise just follow the guide and clean and sand them down.

[Oh Randi]

Originally Posted by nitroman

I just did my rear brakes (finally, after 2 nights - yes I'm a sucky home mechanic). I just followed this guide:

"How To" Replace your Pads and Rotors (Front and Rear)

As for additional parts needed, I would consider these things:

1. Caliper wind back tool, such as something like this:

Home Page > Search > Caliper Tool > ES#9747 11 - Piece Brake Caliper Piston Tool Set - PBK-11PCS

If you don't want to buy you should be able to loan out for free from autozone or some other parts store.

2. Caliper bolts - these are the ones that go into the guide pins (they were 13mm for me). They are *supposedly* one time use bolts. My new pads came with new bolts. Or else, I read that you can buy them from the dealer (though I asked and my dealer won't sell them separately from the pads). Otherwise I also read that you could re-use the old bolts just re-apply some loctite blue near the end.

3. Optional - Caliper mounting bracket bolts (if your car is fairly old). These are the ones that go into the mounting bracket (for me they were 8mm hex allen key bolts). Mine were really rusted on bad and the hex threads were stripped. I bought new ones from the dealer for $2 each. Or you can just get them off, measure them and bring them to any hardware store and buy new ones (I was just lazy).

4. Optional - the metal pad retaining clips (for the rears). My Haynes manual said these should be replaced, but I think only OEM pads come with new ones. Again my dealer wouldn't sell these separately but you may have better luck. Otherwise just follow the guide and clean and sand them down.

Thanks for all the info, very informative post. For valentine's day, my other half is going to teach me how to do all this, because I've never done brakes before but want to learn. That said, he's a chevy guy and hates my VW, any piece of info specific to this car is going to be a huge help. I know about the caliper tool for the rears. He's a manager at an O'reilly's so getting the tool isn't an issue at all.

[esse10]

This tool will do the same thing for pushing the piston back into the caliper. Just use a 3/8 small extension and a ratchet, push in aand twist clockwise. They have it at orailly's for like $ 13 bucks. good luck doing your brakes.

(Lisle-28600c) just google it.

[mullardel34]

Originally Posted by Oh Randi

wait, so, I should brake until going maybe 5 or 10 mph, coast to almost a complete stop to allow brakes to cool then apply brakes if I need to? like if I'm rolling forward or backward?

thanks for mentioning I'll smell the brakes.. I didn't know that and would probably panic thinking I did something wrong lol

Sorry for the tardy response; that damned day job keeps getting in the way...

You need to find a largely empty (no traffic) stretch of road where you can run your vehicle up to 60mph, brake hard down to about 10mph, "rinse and repeat" that process about 10 times, then cruise along at some reasonable speed to cool the brakes, all without coming to a complete stop with the brakes appled (you can coast to a stop and there will be no harm done).

The "hot brake smell" will likely become noticeable around the 5th 60mph-to-10mph braking effort (the brakes will really be "stinking the place up" by the 10th 60mph-to-10mph braking effort). Be sure to "cool" the brakes for a good 15-20 minutes after the bedding-in process (cruise around, using engine-braking to manage your speed).

Yes, it's rather weird driving behavior (yoyo-ing between 60mph and 10mph), so find a quiet stretch of road (and one free of cops if the posted speed limit is less than 60mph).

Good luck!

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by esse10

This tool will do the same thing for pushing the piston back into the caliper. Just use a 3/8 small extension and a ratchet, push in aand twist clockwise. They have it at orailly's for like $ 13 bucks. good luck doing your brakes.

(Lisle-28600c) just google it.

Sorry, that cube looking thing will not work on our Beetle's a few have tried it including Opelmania and it just won't work.

[janitz]

Hey IndyTom,

Do you know if the EBC pads include the caliper bolts mentioned earlier that should be replaced when the pads are replaced?

[esse10]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Sorry, that cube looking thing will not work on our Beetle's a few have tried it including Opelmania and it just won't work.

I guess it depands how old the car is and how rusty the pistons are to push back in cause it worked like a charm for me last summer. Just fyi info.... and trying to help out.
just put a little muscle persuasion on it and it'll move

[SMG]

Originally Posted by mullardel34

run your vehicle up to 60mph, brake hard down to about 10mph, "rinse and repeat" that process about 10 times

I've always heard to do it until your brakes fade and then let them cool. When I bedded my brakes in I don't think it took 10 times.

[mullardel34]

The recommendations that I offered were based on information from several brake-product vendors (Brembo, Hawk, etc) as well as our personal experiences. I used this bedding-in procedure on our 2000 VW New Beetle GLS for the recent brake-system rebuild that was part of our general refurbishment of the car after acquiring it as a used car.

The ten 60mph-to-10mph braking cycles worked like a champ on our New Beetle GLS and we never experienced any brake fade during the process (the OEM parts we employed for the brake-system rebuild worked just fine). We did coast to a stop after 5 cycles to take a look at the brake rotor surfaces; they looked good, but we didn't yet see a smooth/consistent build-up of friction material on the rotors. After the 10 cycles, the build-up of friction material on the rotors looked very smoooth and consistent. The brakes on our New Beetle GLS have provided outstanding and consistent performance since the rebuild and bedding-in of the brakes.

Brembo recommends considerably more braking cycles (up to 30 hard-braking cycles to bed-in the friction material), but that's probably more relevant to high-performance brake components (as opposed to our OEM-based brake system rebuild);

Brembo Frequently Asked Questions
Formula Dynamics / Brembo Brake Bed-In Technique

[Oh Randi]

Originally Posted by janitz

Hey IndyTom,

Do you know if the EBC pads include the caliper bolts mentioned earlier that should be replaced when the pads are replaced?

I just got mine in, but don't have them with me. I didn't take everything out, but I don't remember seeing any caliper bolts in there. I'll double check when I get off work though and let you know.

[janitz]

Originally Posted by Oh Randi

I just got mine in, but don't have them with me. I didn't take everything out, but I don't remember seeing any caliper bolts in there. I'll double check when I get off work though and let you know.

If they don't have them, you should pick up some then, those should be replaced each time.

Do you have specs on torque for all the various bolts you'll need to undo to get the job done?

If you don't I can look in the bentley manual later to let you know.

[Oh Randi]

Originally Posted by janitz

If they don't have them, you should pick up some then, those should be replaced each time.

Do you have specs on torque for all the various bolts you'll need to undo to get the job done?

If you don't I can look in the bentley manual later to let you know.

Thanks for reminding me about the caliper bolts.. Do they sell them at the dealership?

And I have a bentley

[janitz]

Originally Posted by Oh Randi

Thanks for reminding me about the caliper bolts.. Do they sell them at the dealership?

And I have a bentley

Yah, dealership will hopefully be able to sell them. You could likely get bolts that match the thread/size at an auto parts store however it's unlikely the auto parts store will know what bolt is needed. You'd have to bring one in to compare.

[nitroman]

Just curious what does the Bentley manual say are the torque specs? I wanna compare with what the Haynes manual says (yes I know I needa get a Bentley). Since I just did mine last week, I kinda wanna re-inspect things soon and recheck the bolts and stuff. This is what Haynes says (all in ft-lbs):

Caliper Bolts: Front - 21, Rear - 26
Mounting bracket bolts: Front - 92, Rear - 48.

[Oh Randi]

Well there they are!

Sorry if the picture is huge, I'm on my phone and cant tell or fix it lol

[IndyTom]

Looks GREAT Randi!

Now you have to paint those calipers to match the EBC Red Stuff pads

[Oh Randi]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Looks GREAT Randi!

Now you have to paint those calipers to match the EBC Red Stuff pads

I was thinking gloss black.