city mileage sucks

[herTDI]

i'm trying to be satisfied with my mileage, and even when i vent and get over 900km on a tank, which is not unnormal, it doesn't REALLY make a difference when my mpg still is MEH.

i know i need to put a bit more air in my tires, but i feel city driving just sucks for mpg in general.

i guess i'm just venting... no pun intended. haha.

[2k2tdi]

Are you driving a lot of short trips around town? The TDI takes a while to warm up and get to full efficiency. And, warming up is not completed when the blue temp light goes out. Some on the TDIclub page say it tkaes about 10 miles to reach optimum operating temps.

Besides, what kind of mileage are you getting around town? Mid 30's (miles per US gallon) Don't have a handy metric/imperial gallon converter around

[herTDI]

The TDI takes a while to warm up and get to full efficiency. And, warming up is not completed when the blue temp light goes out. no no, i don't eye the temp light for that. i think it's just hopeless if i stick in-town. it is short trips, which is why i'm sort of just whining lol i preferred the summer when i was more of a commuter, as opposed to now where my fuel gauge just mocks me as it falls.

the tank i just finished got 37mpg... which was like 90% city, and just one hour-long trip home and back.

i guess it could be worse, so i probably should just shush

[jpdeuce]

37 isn't terrible...but I think I would still get above 40 with just city driving. Definitely get the air pressure up in the tires...it helps more than you think.

If you do a lot of city driving try anticipating stops. The brake pedal is like a switch that opens a little hatch below the fuel tank and just lets fuel pour out on the ground. Try and keep the momentum up and reduce the number of times you are starting from a dead stop. If you are doing lower speed driving...try and get in 5th gear as fast as possible except don't slam the accelerator down to get there. Accelerate moderately and shift to 5th very early. No matter if I am going 35 or 65 I'm in 5th when I'm cruising.

These tips may help some. Not sure if you are doing all of them. Maybe you can take a different route that allows you to cruise at a higher speed? Even if it's just a couple miles longer, you might get there faster AND get better fuel mileage?

Just some thoughts...not sure if they will help.

[herTDI]

Originally Posted by jpdeuce

37 isn't terrible...but I think I would still get above 40 with just city driving. Definitely get the air pressure up in the tires...it helps more than you think.

If you do a lot of city driving try anticipating stops. The brake pedal is like a switch that opens a little hatch below the fuel tank and just lets fuel pour out on the ground. Try and keep the momentum up and reduce the number of times you are starting from a dead stop. If you are doing lower speed driving...try and get in 5th gear as fast as possible except don't slam the accelerator down to get there. Accelerate moderately and shift to 5th very early. No matter if I am going 35 or 65 I'm in 5th when I'm cruising.

These tips may help some. Not sure if you are doing all of them. Maybe you can take a different route that allows you to cruise at a higher speed? Even if it's just a couple miles longer, you might get there faster AND get better fuel mileage?

Just some thoughts...not sure if they will help.

awesome tips, thank you i've already been driving in 5th more and we'll see if it helps, especially in the latter portion of the tank, where fuel goes much quicker.

small question: in the idea of "anticipating the stops", do you mean keep more speed until closer to the stop, as opposed to breaking more gently for longer? ((have to watch that in the winter, heh)). when i stop, also, i prefer to gear down; do you think gearing down uses more fuel as opposed to coasting, to make any sort of huge difference?

just interesting to think about.

[DR.billZ]

I'm assuming since you said you were in 5th, it is a manual. Push the clutch in and coast before you hit the brake. Ride the heck out of the clutch(coast). Don't downshift to slow down....COAST.
Also SHIFT EARLY. Try not to go over 2,000 rpm before shifting.
I drive mostly "city"(stop and go) and always get around 41-42mpg.
Stay out of the "gas" pedal, don't push it down so far. Use the engine's torque annd not engine revs to get you around.
Get the tire pressure up(40psi will help a ton). I run 44 a lot myself.

[herTDI]

Originally Posted by DR.billZ

I'm assuming since you said you were in 5th, it is a manual. Push the clutch in and coast before you hit the brake. Ride the heck out of the clutch(coast). Don't downshift to slow down....COAST.
Also SHIFT EARLY. Try not to go over 2,000 rpm before shifting.
I drive mostly "city"(stop and go) and always get around 41-42mpg.
Stay out of the "gas" pedal, don't push it down so far. Use the engine's torque annd not engine revs to get you around.
Get the tire pressure up(40psi will help a ton). I run 44 a lot myself.

manual indeed.

i'm going to check my tire pressure today. i know it's down; it's been a few months since i last upped it. thanks for the guidance!

[maxforce]

The above tips will help you get better mpg......but they are also horriable for the engine. lugging a diesel engine is very hard on it. I shift no less than 3k and very often at 3500 and get 50 mpg on the road with bio diesel and 55 with diesel. To me the extra 2 mpg is not worth what you are doing to your engine. Post your question on the tdi board or better yet do a search on the tdi board and you will see that most agree with me on shift points. Max

[herTDI]

Originally Posted by maxforce

The above tips will help you get better mpg......but they are also horriable for the engine. lugging a diesel engine is very hard on it. I shift no less than 3k and very often at 3500 and get 50 mpg on the road with bio diesel and 55 with diesel. To me the extra 2 mpg is not worth what you are doing to your engine. Post your question on the tdi board or better yet do a search on the tdi board and you will see that most agree with me on shift points. Max

"the extra 2 mpg is not worth what you are doing to your engine" --correction: what COULD happen to an engine; i know about shift points--i'm too much of a driver who loves to drive to shift low all the time . technicalities aside, if i shifted no higher than 2000 ALL the time, i think i'd die of boredom it just makes sense for an engine which warms up from driving, breaks in with age and use to get used a bit.

i think i'll try though to find a balance between use of fuel and use of engine, and see how things go. on the tank i'm so far seems to be going well, but the first part of it always does, and the latter part not so much.

[maxforce]

the main thing it does is not let it breath. It speeds the plugging of the intake and does not give the turbo proper excercise. diesel engines like work and ours are no different. I tried the shifing at 2000. It did not work for me. Anyone in the high mpg game will do all of the above. If I am in a 35 mph zone, I stay in 3rd, 45 is 4th. Shifing at 2000 lets the rpms fall so low you have to climb out of a hole before the enging is really pulling. shifing at 3k and above lets the engine fall no lower than about 2200. Yes, peak boost is at 2000, but peak HP is not. My car is still pulling good up to 4000, after that it starts falling off.

So for maximum MPG.....shift fast and get in fifth quick, coast as far as you can to stop, start as slow as you can, leave it in 5th no matter how slow you go, just above the point of stalling. you could be in for some.......interesting hand signals for starting very slowly and coasting a long ways to a stop sign....upsets some people.

If you want to enjoy your car...wind it up, stay in lower gears in slow conditions, leave the gas hogs at the stop lights. your engine will breath better and it keeps a smile on your face. I will gladly give up 3 or 4 mpg to enjoy the quick torque of my little cars.....we have a 03 beetle and a 04 golf. All in what you want.

The city is where the hybrids shine and on the open road is where ours do.

[mgwerks]

Originally Posted by jpdeuce

The brake pedal is like a switch that opens a little hatch below the fuel tank and just lets fuel pour out on the ground. Try and keep the momentum up and reduce the number of times you are starting from a dead stop.

Originally Posted by herTDI

...small question: in the idea of "anticipating the stops", do you mean keep more speed until closer to the stop, as opposed to breaking more gently for longer? ((have to watch that in the winter, heh)). when i stop, also, i prefer to gear down; do you think gearing down uses more fuel as opposed to coasting, to make any sort of huge difference?

Big surprise - if the TDI is in gear and coasting, it is using *no* fuel at all. The computer shuts off fuel delivery when throttle is completely closed and the car is coasting. SO, downshifting actually uses up more fuel and clutch lining.

Oh, and over at TDIclub.com, you'll find that there is a large and friendly TDI presence in the GTA - all over Toronto adn Ottowa too.

Glad to have you aboard!


And Maxforce is right - try to shift at least between 2500 and 3000, with a couple of runs uo to at least 4000 each day to keep the soot buildup away.

[jpdeuce]

I agree with the shift points...but that isn't the same as cruising RPMs. No sense in cruising in 3rd if you are at the speed limit and will be for a while. Shift to 5th as you don't need the torque to cruise or the fuel at those RPMs. I definitely agree in shifting past 2000 though...I shift between 2500 and 3500...but again I "cruise" in 5th at almost all speeds.

mgwerks is right...keeping a TDI in gear (clutch out) as you slow down does not deliver any fuel. I think I heard this on tdiclub, a TDI needs 2 of 3 things to keep the engine running: momentum, fuel, compression. When it's in gear it's got compression and momentum, when it's in neutral though it isn't getting the benefit of momentum so it needs fuel for compression. Not sure if I'm saying that right.

Anyway, to summarize...I definitely support shifting higher than 2000 when "accelerating", but once you are at "cruising" speed it makes no sense to keep it in a lower gear just because you aren't at the shift point yet. Just my opinion, but I don't see what that helps, and I don't think that was drivebywire's intentions when creating the shift point sheet on tdiclub.

[DR.billZ]

Originally Posted by mgwerks

Big surprise - if the TDI is in gear and coasting, it is using *no* fuel at all.

That may be true but with the clutch in or the car in neutral you will coast MUCH further than if it is "in gear" and slowing down.

[maxforce]

The reason I stay in a lower gears in a 35mph zone is this. Out where I live about the only place we have this low of speed is in town. With lights about a quarter mile apart. Following one view I would shift up through the gears, lug along in 5th for a couple hundred yards at 1600 or so rpms stop at the light and start over. I would rather shift till I hit 3rd...maintain enough rpms that I can accelerate out of trouble if needed and not to keep needlessly shifing thru all 5 gears. Same for 4th UNLESS I was in a 45 for mile after mile on an open road I would do like you and shift to 5th to cruise along at 45. I would never cruise at 35 mph in 5th for any amoout of time.

everyone does what is best for themselves. I just wanted to explain why I stay in lower gears.

BillZ, I am just curious....do you get honked at alot of flipped the bird coasing for long distances to stops?