TDI 101 - Important information for all TDI owners to know

[MichelleRoze]

Since diesel engines are truly a different engine from a gasser, and most people when getting a TDI for the first time don't know the importance of that little statement, I offer this thread to you.

This thread is going to suggest and give you all the basic, important information, that every TDI owner should know.

1. Visit the TDIclub there will be more people there who know about these diesel engines and can help you out. Lurk over there for awhile. Trust me, there will be so much information, your brain will be overwhelmed with knowledge and better understanding of these wonderful machines. You will learn how to maintain, fix, and even mod these cars....for better fuel efficiency, power, and all around fun!

2. "Trusted TDI Mechanics by State" per the TDIclub. Always best to do your research before hand, but these guys have a good track record with people on the TDIclub. Don't be afraid of going to a user on the TDIclub instead of a shop. Just trust me on this one.

3. DO NOT take your Diesel engine to just any old mechanics shop. Mechanics will say "oh yeah, we work on diesels, they aren't that much different from gas", RUN. They say this, but they don't know this. Plus, a lot of shops will try to walk you out of their shop for $500 - $1,000 EACH TIME. (I had a friend who verified this for me). They will do what it takes to make the most off you. Unless you know the mechanic personally and trust there work...don't use these places.

4. Avoid the Dealer if possible. There are some things that are unavoidable, but try to keep dealer use to a minimum if possible. I've only really heard a few good things about the dealer services on TDI engines. Again, not all mechanics are TDI mechanics. Even though VW sells diesels, doesn't mean their mechanics know how to work on diesels. There are several threads about how a dealer does an oil change wrong (by not putting in oil), or diagnose a dead turbo and charge you LOTS of money for a new one, plus labor, when a trusted TDI mechanic on the TDIclub could have just cleaned it and saved you hundreds of dollars.

5. This is probably my most favorite generic advice for everything in life. When in doubt...get a second (or third) opinion. Don't just believe everything one person says. Double check any information you get, especially when it's concerning these diesel engines.

Hopefully this information will help all TDI owners, new and old. If you treat these engines right, they truly will last you a really long time. Problem is most people don't know where to get the correct information...and that's what this thread is for. Hope this helps. Happy TDI-ing!

[Smileybug]

I will say that if you do want to go to a shop not on the list, just do some research. Just because they aren't on the list, doesn't mean they don't know how to work on diesels. The local shop I go to started working on diesels recently, but they are all VW nuts there and understand the differences between the diesels and gassers. They've done a number of timing belts now on almost each type of TDI engine. They are on the list now (I think maybe KC Foxie got them on there) but they weren't before. Also, not everyone on the list should be there IMO. I know there is a place on there listed in Raleigh, but I know he trys to stay away from diesels and works mostly with earlier VWs (Vanagons I think are more of a speciality)

So basically, do your research. I still wouldn't go to just any old shop, but there are some good local shops that know their stuff that aren't on the list. If you have a good experience with someone who is, post up on TDI club and let everyone know! Bad experience with someone on the list, post up too!

[cep]

I won't go so far as to condemn all dealers, because I have one that I like and trust.

But, that situation can change in the blink of an eye. All it takes is for a good, smart service writer to leave a dealership and be replaced by an incompetent one and the whole reputation of a dealership can go down the drain. It behooves an owner to get to know the service writer on a personal basis but then, if an owner has virtually no knowledge of how an automobile works, how is he to judge whether the service writer is competent or not?

There used to be a website called "1.8t.org" in which people could post their experiences, both good and bad, with dealerships. A ratings system posted a score for each dealership. I really liked that site, but it is nowhere to be found now. Maybe something like that could get started here, for both dealerships and independent shops.

edit: This site isn't nearly as good at 1.8t.org was, but maybe it's better than nothing.
http://www.dealerrater.com/

[SilverDieselDemon]

Allot of us from Fred's are here too, well those with NBs. I hope people use the internet for more than porn, forums, and facebook,
RESEARCH it will lead you to good information however biased it may be.
The point is that if you buy an enthusiast's car with out understanding about it, then the dealer can and will abuse you until you become a enthusiast.

SDD

[Growler]

I'm here, and I don't have an NB

[pm22071985]

Basics of TDI Engine:
TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - TDI Engine - Diagnostics 101

Car wont start troubleshooting:
Car won't start troubleshooting - TDIClub Forums

TDI FAQ's:
TDI FAQ

HOW TO's with pics (changeing brakes/suspension/fuel/oil/coolant/mechanincal/varius interior & exterior stuff)
HOW TO's - TDIClub Forums

INFORMATION IS MOSTLY ABOUT MK4 JETTA/GOLF, WHICH IS SAME AS NB WITH MINOR DIFFRENCES.

[MichelleRoze]

I want to add to this real quick. I have....well HAD a 2002 TDI with an 01M automatic transmission! I'm sure by now with all the researching you've been doing, you've heard about the lovely 01M So at 152K miles, my 01M started to fail. And it failed in a hurry (as I hear that's what they do.) and by hurry, I mean literally a month. So I got a hold of JimBote on the TDIclub. He is located in Tennessee. He can do automatic to manual transmission swaps like it's nobody's business!! Plus, he's got a hard price to beat. Around $2500 depending on the mileage of the transmission and clutch, but in all honesty...you can't beat that price. He also travels for a fee though.

Jim was able to swap my automatic to a manual in .... drum roll please.........12 hours! I kid you not! 12 hours and he was able to swap my transmission and get it running without issue (well except the fact that I couldn't drive a stick yet lol but that's not Jim's fault). So I HIGHLY recommend that if you have a TDI with an automatic and you know yours is about to go bad....contact JimBote on the TDIclub. He will honestly be your hero!!!

I was his second ever Beetle to swap, the first being his own. The fact that he was able to do mine in 12 hours is amazing. Normally he needs about a week to get the parts. And the install could take a day and a half. But by comparision, I had been quoted $3000 or more and about a week to install from other TDI guru's....so Jim ... well .... he's amazing!

[lkchris]

How about a little engineering and a LOT less mythology?

While I know it's cool to feel "special," (and to tell everyone so on a forum) fact is there isn't that much difference between gas and diesel engines.

While it's indeed true VWofA doesn't monitor its dealers very well, if you can't trust your dealer to fix your diesel you can't trust them with your gasser either.

The orignal post in this thread is so error filled and "mythological" as to not merit "sticky" status.

[Smileybug]

Actually, diesels are very different from gassers. I own both at home and worked on them both. What makes you say they aren't all that different?

I do agree though that if the dealer can't trusted for one engine, it shouldn't be trusted for either. I personally go to a local shop. In the past year or so they have just started working on diesels, because of the differences.

[MichelleRoze]

Originally Posted by lkchris

How about a little engineering and a LOT less mythology?

While I know it's cool to feel "special," (and to tell everyone so on a forum) fact is there isn't that much difference between gas and diesel engines.

While it's indeed true VWofA doesn't monitor its dealers very well, if you can't trust your dealer to fix your diesel you can't trust them with your gasser either.

The orignal post in this thread is so error filled and "mythological" as to not merit "sticky" status.

Diesel engines ARE VERY different from gas engines. Most mechanics know the basics of a gas vehicle. Just because they can't work on Diesels, that doesn't mean I won't take a gasser there, as long as they have a good record of service. Plus to have a mechanic work on a passenger car with a diesel engine is also something not commonly done in the States. Small diesel engines such as ours make up a very small percent of the market. Most diesel mechanics know large trucks or buses and what not.

This thread is meant for those who are considering a diesel or want advice about diesels. Many people will buy a diesel and not know how to properly maintain one...then complain that diesel engines aren't worth their cost. Whereas if they would have just maintained it, had work done by someone who has experience with diesels, and not just gone to 'jiffy lube'...they would be much happier with their car.

It's nice to have a thread that gives advice to those, who otherwise, might not search through millions of threads looking for the information. I wanted this thread to offer valuable advice, as well as information on who to contact when something goes wrong. I didn't believe the hype of taking it to a guru on the TDIclub when I first got the car. I over paid for a very poorly done timing belt job, and this was from a shop (not dealer - since finding a good one in Atlanta is next to impossible) who was supposed to be specializing in VW's; both diesel and gas.

It all boils down to research. You should do that with any car, but really should do it with diesels. Because the cost of repair is higher than a normal gasser, it really benefits the owner to research issues themselves first and try to determine if the mechanic is dishing you a plate of lies.

I'd also like to know what you think is "mythological" about the first post? If you are referring to #3 and #4 then just ask some diesel owners about their experiences? I've read a lot on the TDIclub as well as spoke with some owners (I do frequent GtG's with other Diesel owners) and these things happen more often than not. If you want more engineering or facts, then please...feel free to fill in the blanks because that's what this "sticky" is for...

[miffmole]

Originally Posted by cep

There used to be a website called "1.8t.org" in which people could post their experiences, both good and bad, with dealerships. A ratings system posted a score for each dealership. I really liked that site, but it is nowhere to be found now. Maybe something like that could get started here, for both dealerships and independent shops.

You can see parts of it here:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://1.8t.org

[jazzcat]

Originally Posted by lkchris

How about a little engineering and a LOT less mythology?

While I know it's cool to feel "special," (and to tell everyone so on a forum) fact is there isn't that much difference between gas and diesel engines.

While it's indeed true VWofA doesn't monitor its dealers very well, if you can't trust your dealer to fix your diesel you can't trust them with your gasser either.

The orignal post in this thread is so error filled and "mythological" as to not merit "sticky" status.

there are so many independent shops that specialize in these cars that going to a dealer is a waste of time and money

sure they are good for warranty stuff but our car has gone to the same tech since we got it and we got his name from the TDIclub list of approved mechanics. We didn't trust our gas powered cars to the dealers out here either due to them doing physical damage to all of the cars we have taken in.

"there isnt much difference between gas and diesel engines" really? that statement right there shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[chephron]

Originally Posted by lkchris

How about a little engineering and a LOT less mythology?

While I know it's cool to feel "special," (and to tell everyone so on a forum) fact is there isn't that much difference between gas and diesel engines.

While it's indeed true VWofA doesn't monitor its dealers very well, if you can't trust your dealer to fix your diesel you can't trust them with your gasser either.

The orignal post in this thread is so error filled and "mythological" as to not merit "sticky" status.

Diesels and Gassers...Gassers and Diesels. The same difference right?
WRONG. There's a reason why they didn't use gasoline engines on German
OR American U-Boats in WWII. The orginal post on this thread was not a technical analysis nor did it claim to be. It did not promise you facts or details. It was simply general advice to those who are new to the concept of owning a diesel. That's it. It is not mythology at all as it speaks the truth. It is not comprehensive or exhaustive, but a good starting point. Research is the key to learning about any technical machine and the post clearly encourages this. And for the record, most dealers at least in the Southeast, can fix a Gasser because that's mostly what they see and have practice on. Diesels are an extreme rarity and so most mechanics don't undergo the specialized training needed to fix them properly. Also someone who works on diesels alot will know exactly what goes wrong with them typically and what the symptoms are without having to keep guessing until they find the problem. I used to work for a dealer service department and its the same rules as anything else:
What you work on more routinely, you will naturally be more expert on. Hell, there are even people who specialize in NBs and aren't as good as diagnosing Golfs, Jettas, and Passats as some other folks even though some of the engines are the same. That's becuase how they are integrated is NOT the same. So before you go spewing at the keyboard again, criticizing a post, please be sure you yourself are informed from multiple sources and have a good understanding about the ideas you are criticizing. You might just learn something

[woofster]

Hi guys! Looking forward to contributing to this forum. I'm eagerly about to take on a 2000 Beetle TDI as a daily driver and was very excited to see this forum specific to the NB. As this will be my first diesel, I'm looking forward to being a part of this forum!

[Froggy]

Just putting in my two cents worth:

The link to the TDI CLub is great. Just the FAQ alone is worth its reading time in knowledge, even to a noob like me with limited mechanical knowledge. The information about starting and warming up I knew from experience, and the manual comments about ease of shifting is completely true.

I hated manual cars until my husband had a diesel Jetta. He "taught" me how to drive manual, even though theoretically I was supposed to have been taught already. Manual cars constantly gave me trouble and I hated them. The Jetta was a very forgiving and patient teacher and after a quick talk-through my husband actually left me alone and the Jetta taught me the rest while I went in circles around the parking lot. I have never missed a car more. We were coerced into parting with the Jetta due to space issues and before we could get it back from the junk yard the guy had tried to crush it. He had to go buy a new crusher, at least.

My point is this sticky, while you may argue the specifics, is a very good first contact and jumping off point to find out more about diesel cars in general. And in my opinion diesels are different that gasoline models- they're better! Hopefully I'll see you all around once I actually become a beetle owner.

[g.man6719]

I want to post for the first time.

My wife and I were vacationing in Asheville, North Carolina. We'd driven down from Chicago in my 2001 Beetle TDI. We traveled around the mountainous area for five wonderful days, including a nice ride on the Blue Ridge Parkway. On the sixth day, we went to Lake Lure which is gotten to by traveling a very twisty and narrow road. On the way back to Asheville on an uphill grade the transmission gave out. The engine rev'd but the car wouldn't move, except backwards downhill.

Well thank goodness we were directed to Deal Motor Cars (VW Dealer in Asheville, NC) and Mister Ben Conner (dealer general manager). The repair department had told me that the tranny was shot and would cost 4,500.00 to repair. I didn't want to spend that amount on an eleven year old car. The sales department offered perhaps 500.00 for my junk.

Well the next day my wife and I went and got a rental and was headed home after selling the car for junk. Upon arriving at the dealer, the salesman I talked to had to call his sales manager, then he had to go to Mister Conner. After an hour or so, Mister Conner came to me with what he said was good news and bad news. The good news was he thought he could have the transmission repaired under warranty. The bad news, yea right I know, was that we'd have to leaver the car for week or so.

Well long story short. The car was repaired under an extended warranty and I picked up the car and drove back to Chicago, Illinois.

Mister Ben Conner, General Manager, of Deal Motor Cars is truly a fine gentleman. He made no promise that he didn't full fill. Thanks to him, I have the new car that I didn't get when I bought it. I had always complained that the transmission didn't shift right. I was always told that there wasn't a problem by two dealers in Chicago. Autobarn in Evanston and Jenning's in Glenview. It took a trip of 600 plus miles and an untimely breakdown to finally have the issue resolved. Thanks Mister Ben Conner, a great man in the auto dealership world.

[esse10]

okay I read enough ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,No diesel car for me in the near future. I'll stick to gas and then electric If I'm still around by the time VW decides to make an electric car affordable to the general public.

bye, bye TDI

[Smileybug]

Why do you say that?

[mid3vil]

esse10: no diesel for you? Porque no? True there is an increase in cost for the fuel, and repairs (which is one reason to get your knuckles greasy) but that is quickly offset by the fuel economy of these beast and their durability far exceeds the average gas engine.

Granted if you are someone who is frequently trading in new vehicles, diesel may not be for you. They typically have a higher upfront cost. Instead of purchasing a new gas or hybrid, consider saving up (is this idea foreign now days) for a well maintained diesel. You'll find a great price point, great fuel economy, and an engine that will stick around for many miles.

[AndyBees]

Originally Posted by mid3vil

esse10: no diesel for you? Porque no? True there is an increase in cost for the fuel, and repairs (which is one reason to get your knuckles greasy) but that is quickly offset by the fuel economy of these beast and their durability far exceeds the average gas engine.

Granted if you are someone who is frequently trading in new vehicles, diesel may not be for you. They typically have a higher upfront cost. Instead of purchasing a new gas or hybrid, consider saving up (is this idea foreign now days) for a well maintained diesel. You'll find a great price point, great fuel economy, and an engine that will stick around for many miles.

My 2000 Jetta TDI, with just under 300,000 miles has cost me less than 15 cents per mile to OWN and OPERATE. That includes initial cost, taxes, license & taxes each year, insurance, general maintenance, preventative maintenance, wash jobs, fuel, tires, batteries, etc., and actually excludes re-sale value! It has a life time average of over 50 MPGs and still knocks off 50 to 55 MPGs on road trips!

I think it is a no brainer! I've been driving VW diesels since January 1980 with no regrets!