PD owners - any cam problems??

[CoriBug]

Just curious - this topic has been discussed/analyzed on TDI Club about a zillion times. So far my 05 PD has no issues using Castrol TXT 5w-40 (both the dealer and my mechanic prefer this oil).

There is quite the range of opinion on TDI Club (the problem is widespread OR yes some cars have this problem but it's not really commmon). If the damage is noticed before the engine is totally destroyed the parts can be replaced for a somewhat reasonable price, is this correct?

**reasonable = less than $2k

[DZLBUG]

Correct. If caught in time it is cheaper to repair. Parts are about $800. Labor varies but should be $800 or less. If a lifter completely comes apart on you then the head has to come off and requires more extensive repair which adds to the cost significantly.

You are using a good oil, so that helps. What change interval are you running? Some PD owners are shortening it to 7500 miles, so you may want to consider it. Its up to you. How many miles are you at now? I would recommend periodic inspection of the cam and lifters. Maybe once or twice a year depending on how many miles you rack up.

[CoriBug]

My car is at 84,000 miles now. I've been running 5000 mile OCI since after the 10,000 mile mark. I know there's some disagreement over that but my car has no damage and everything runs fine (except the darn lift pump which is getting replaced sometime in the next 2 weeks). The timing belt has to be removed for an inspection of the cam and lifters, correct? Maybe I'll ask my mechanic to look it over at 100k.

[DZLBUG]

Nope, just the valve cover. So it is a fairly quick and cheap process. 100k miles sounds like a good point to have them inspected.

[cep]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the oil has nearly as much to do with it as the metalurgy of the cam and lifters. If you are lucky enough to get one with good metalurgy, you'll be fine. If not, it isn't going to matter what you do with the oil.

[The Cheat]

two ways to go about replacement--

the first is standalone. labor for a dealer is 7 hours (give or take). it involves 95% of the steps of a timing belt replacement.

the second is with a timing belt change. everything's apart except the cam caps, should only add an hour max to change. i add $60 to the labor charge of a timing belt service if i'm doing it, and most of that is in assembly lube, oil, and the like.

i check pd cams every time a new one comes in (takes 10 minutes for a visual), and for repeat business, every oil change. if i catch it right then, i have the cam and lifters ready to go, and can usually get them repaired in no time.

i do more than you would think, and it's becoming more common now that these cars are getting older and have more mileage. i'm doing one right now actually (i'm just waiting on the new guy to get back with assembly lube), and for me to do it, it takes 5.5 hours (with a t-belt). this is on a car with 120k miles, txt every 5k since new, and pretty much everything done by me early or on time. i'll have to post pics when i'm done with the job because it really is a sight to see what it did to the #3 intake lifter.

[kcfoxie]

I sincerely believe that the cam wear is largely a handful of BEWs and mostly a BRM (Jetta) problem. I know way too many BEWs with nearing 200k on their original camshaft.

That said my BRM is wearing, but it's still getting 46-47 on long trips and 41 in town. Until it gives me reason to blink... I'm holding my own.

Part costs for a BEW replacement have come *way* down. I saw a kit on eBay for $380 US that had the rollers and lifters, it seemed all you needed.

If I had a BEW with a wearing cam I'd look at an aftermarket performance model, this is the game plan I have with my BRM*.

*The BRM camshaft part # was used in european models with a Diesel Particulate Filter, the same head # as found on the BRM was sold with a BEW camshaft part # in non-clean (no DPF) form par members on TDIClub, since I believe that the BRMs suffered from a combination of poor manufacturing of the part and poor oil quality, I'm going to go the "next round" with Mobil-1 Oil on a 7500 mile interval with an aftermarket cam that has been properly treated.

[archiebug]

What engines does this affect then? Reading around in the UK it only really affects 130&150bhp PD's, the 100/104's that are in NB's dont seem to suffer with this problem?

I'm getting a 100PD (ATD engine code I think - 2002 model) tomorrow, is there any tell tale signs of the cam wear (ie noise from the engine?)

[kcfoxie]

From what I see most of the UK failures were on w30 oil, diesels need a w40 oil. That's line item #1.

Line item #2 is that the PD100 was used in up to a 170(!)HP configuration in europe. Same engine with different turbo, injectors and tune.

The one thing I see common in US-PD failures (again MOST of them are BRMs, there were just a handful of BEWs that I saw it being an issue with, and many said it was no worse than the bad cam batch for the 2002 model year ALH 90HP models)), is chipped (140HP), and using 505.01 oil that was a w30 (which for a while was approved for use by VW) and the 10k change cycle. I personally think that our dirty fuel contaminates the already weak oil and further breaks it down allowing for premature wear of the valvetrain (hey if they can say biodiesel does this, why can't we say it of normal fuel? it's no secret that our crap is dirtier than canada and europe...)

If you are buying a NA sold TDI, and it's a 2002, it's an ALH. It might also need a camshaft because the 2002 model year got a bad bad (heat treating issue I think it was), by now it may have been replaced. 2004-2006 model TDIs are the only one that may have a failure, MkV Jetta 05.5-06.5 are the most likely to have a camshaft problem.

My mechanics mom has a 130k 04 BEW Wagon. Spotless. Dealer maintained since new, they didn't always use the right oil, but she insisted on 5k oil change intervals. I noticed that folks who used shorter change intervals often had prolonged life of their camshaft.

This is why I think BRM PDs should use a better than 50501 oil (I like Mobil 1 myself) and change it every 7500 miles. The BEWs on the same oil can probably go 10k miles. If you want the 10k OCI, however, get a 90HP ALH and throw Rotella at it all day long.

[archiebug]

The car I'm buying is a July 2002 car, and deffo has an ATD code engine (I checked with the dealers) I'm assuming it isn't one really affected with Cam problems then?

[kcfoxie]

Where are you, exactly?

If it's 90HP it should be golden.

[archiebug]

I'm in the UK, ALL TDi NB's are PD engined cars. We didn't get the TDi until 2002 and it came with the ATD coded TDi PD engine from the off

And mines a 100Bhp engine, not 90

The only non PD TDi's in the UK are imports

[kcfoxie]

aaaah... ok this makes more sense to me now!

You should be OK. Just use a 5w40 oil in it.

We only got 90HP models till 2004 this side of the pond.

[simonsi]

Originally Posted by kcfoxie

We only got 90HP models till 2004 this side of the pond.

Perhaps (given your comments), that is the best they could get out of the same engine on NA fuel???

[kcfoxie]

I don't think that was it. The 90HP model was already certified for emissions (AHU, 96-97 passat, 98 Jetta).

The 100HP model was still 'new' to Europe in 99-02, by the time 04 rolled around it had been in production long enough to easily meet US emissions as well as have the expected low cost of ownership (parts).