05 Hard to start...now...won't start

[05tdi]

Hey guys, my wife's 2005 tdi has been sounding difficult to start for some time now (last 3 years). I've replace the battery 2 times now and it currently has an optima. When I first put the newest battery in it seemed very easy to start but has just been getting more and more sluggish. Then, this morning, it won't start. Anyone have any ideas? Does this sound like a starter issue? I've talked to my mechanic and they really didn't look into it but said that it was probably something electrical draining the battery as it sat. The car is in near perfect condition and while anything is possible, this just doesn't sound like the case. To me it sounds like the starter [not the battery]. Any input???

**One more thing to mention... I have been hearing a recent humming almost like a small air compressor coming from the rear of the car. I can really only hear it from the interior when its first started and idling. Seems to go away once I start driving it. Could this be a fuel pump going bad? Hence the hard starting?

P.S. The car runs perfect. Just had the timing belt, water pump, and a hydraulic motor mount replaced. 100k mi.

[jason m]

Originally Posted by 05tdi

Hey guys, my wife's 2005 tdi has been sounding difficult to start for some time now (last 3 years). I've replace the battery 2 times now and it currently has an optima. When I first put the newest battery in it seemed very easy to start but has just been getting more and more sluggish. Then, this morning, it won't start. Anyone have any ideas? Does this sound like a starter issue? I've talked to my mechanic and they really didn't look into it but said that it was probably something electrical draining the battery as it sat. The car is in near perfect condition and while anything is possible, this just doesn't sound like the case. To me it sounds like the battery. Any input???

P.S. The car runs perfect. Just had the timing belt, water pump, and a hydraulic motor mount replaced. 100k mi.

are the lights bright when you hit the starter or do they go very dim? Do you hear the starter engage?

[Smileybug]

You did get a battery with the appropriate cranking amps? TDIs need a lot more cranking amps than a gasser. A slight drop in the battery will make it hard to start. It sounds like it could be a battery issue. Any more information on what happens when you try to start it?

[05tdi]

As of this moment the bug is stuck in a lot at my wifes work. I'm going to go jump it when she gets off. She went to work and noticed it was hard to start this morning... Got to work and sat in the car with the radio on and the heater fan blowing but the motor not running for about a half hour. Then tried to start it up and it won't even try. It's obvious that the battery doesn't have enough juice to start it, but why would this be. She didn't do anything irregular. I'm wondering if the starter is going bad and needing way to much juice to start.

[05tdi]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

You did get a battery with the appropriate cranking amps? TDIs need a lot more cranking amps than a gasser. A slight drop in the battery will make it hard to start. It sounds like it could be a battery issue. Any more information on what happens when you try to start it?

Yes, I made sure the battery we got was more than required. They were telling me when I bought it that I didn't need one that strong but I knew of the hard starting and wanted to rule out an improperly sized battery.

[NewBeetleMechanic]

Originally Posted by 05tdi

Hey guys, my wife's 2005 tdi has been sounding difficult to start for some time now (last 3 years). I've replace the battery 2 times now and it currently has an optima. When I first put the newest battery in it seemed very easy to start but has just been getting more and more sluggish. Then, this morning, it won't start. Anyone have any ideas? Does this sound like a starter issue? I've talked to my mechanic and they really didn't look into it but said that it was probably something electrical draining the battery as it sat. The car is in near perfect condition and while anything is possible, this just doesn't sound like the case. To me it sounds like the battery. Any input???

**One more thing to mention... I have been hearing a recent humming almost like a small air compressor coming from the rear of the car. I can really only hear it from the interior when its first started and idling. Seems to go away once I start driving it. Could this be a fuel pump going bad? Hence the hard starting?

P.S. The car runs perfect. Just had the timing belt, water pump, and a hydraulic motor mount replaced. 100k mi.

Until you check into a few things no-one can answer the question as to why it is not starting.

When you say its been getting harder and harder to start, that says to me the cat converter is plugged, and then stating you have been hearing a funny noise, tells me the fuel pump is going out. With a power draw that tells me you have a electrical problem.

But without knowing the answers to certain questions I cant answer any questions, no-one can.




If I were repairing it I would first check fuel pressure, then check the exhaust flow out of the exhaust. When you ask about your starter some might be confused on what doesn't start means.


Does it crank over? Do you hear the fuel pump kick on? Any check engine light on or been on? Have you ran over anything? Is the oil full? Antifreeze?

The questions go on and on.

[05tdi]

Originally Posted by NewBeetleMechanic

Until you check into a few things no-one can answer the question as to why it is not starting.

When you say its been getting harder and harder to start, that says to me the cat converter is plugged, and then stating you have been hearing a funny noise, tells me the fuel pump is going out. With a power draw that tells me you have a electrical problem.

But without knowing the answers to certain questions I cant answer any questions, no-one can.




If I were repairing it I would first check fuel pressure, then check the exhaust flow out of the exhaust. When you ask about your starter some might be confused on what doesn't start means.


Does it crank over? Do you hear the fuel pump kick on? Any check engine light on or been on? Have you ran over anything? Is the oil full? Antifreeze?

The questions go on and on.

Oil, anti-freeze???? What are you talking about? That's not even half way relevant to a starting issue. If you had read the first post in this thread you would have read that the car is in near perfect condition. You would've also read that I just had the timing belt, water pump and motor mount replaced... This alone should give you a pretty good indication that I take care of my car and that YES the coolant is full. As far as the oil goes, even if it weren't full it would still start and run...Of course probably not for very long.

Yes, I've already mentioned that the "funny noise" sounds like it may be the fuel pump... The whole point of the mention was to maybe get a response of "hey I had a 'funny noise too and it was my fuel pump'"...

I never said there was a power draw... I did say, however, that my mechanic mentioned it could be an electrical issue without having looked at it.

Then, if you would have read my other post in this thread, you would've read that I said "it doesn't even try". This quote would, even to the simplest mind, infer that NO it is not "cranking over". Of course, one could also conclude that the increasing difficulty of the start would mean that it had been cranking over thus far.

As to the endless questions you mention, until you give me a relevant one, I can't start answering.

Oh yeah, a child could've guessed that no mention of a check engine light probably meant that it wasn't on.

Thanks for the laugh though... You know... That part where you ask if I ran anything over. Though it would've been even funnier if you asked about any paint peeling off.

[NewBeetleMechanic]

Originally Posted by 05tdi

Thanks for the laugh though... You know... That part where you ask if I ran anything over. Though it would've been even funnier if you asked about any paint peeling off.

I feel as if you were/are trying to make my post seem ignorant, so I will add nothing more to this topic.

Good luck getting it repaired.

They were example questions.

[Homer3D]

FYI, it is not recommended that you “jump” an optima battery. To me, without doing further testing, it sounds like your car has a parasitic drain on the battery. I have/had the same problem on another car I have. It is because I go weeks and almost months without driving it. Specially during the rainy season. I picked up a battery tender and have never had a problem since. You can pick one up for about $20 to $50 and just plug your car in when you are not driving it. It is will keep the battery “new” all the time.

I have an Optima as well. I use a specific “tender” made for Optima/AGM batteries. BatteryMINDer® Plus AGM/OPTIMA Maintenance Charger / Desulfator-Conditioner 12 Volt – 1.0 Amp | All | Battery Chargers by BatteryMINDers.com

It works great. I can go a month without driving my car and it starts up like it has a new battery every time. Save your money from buying new batteries every couple of years and just get a battery tender.

[05tdi]

Originally Posted by NewBeetleMechanic

I feel as if you were/are trying to make my post seem ignorant, so I will add nothing more to this topic.

Good luck getting it repaired.

Thanks.

[jason m]

Originally Posted by 05tdi

Oil, anti-freeze???? What are you talking about? That's not even half way relevant to a starting issue. If you had read the first post in this thread you would have read that the car is in near perfect condition. You would've also read that I just had the timing belt, water pump and motor mount replaced... This alone should give you a pretty good indication that I take care of my car and that YES the coolant is full. As far as the oil goes, even if it weren't full it would still start and run...Of course probably not for very long.

Yes, I've already mentioned that the "funny noise" sounds like it may be the fuel pump... The whole point of the mention was to maybe get a response of "hey I had a 'funny noise too and it was my fuel pump'"...

I never said there was a power draw... I did say, however, that my mechanic mentioned it could be an electrical issue without having looked at it.

Then, if you would have read my other post in this thread, you would've read that I said "it doesn't even try". This quote would, even to the simplest mind, infer that NO it is not "cranking over". Of course, one could also conclude that the increasing difficulty of the start would mean that it had been cranking over thus far.

As to the endless questions you mention, until you give me a relevant one, I can't start answering.

Oh yeah, a child could've guessed that no mention of a check engine light probably meant that it wasn't on.

Thanks for the laugh though... You know... That part where you ask if I ran anything over. Though it would've been even funnier if you asked about any paint peeling off.

what an a**. fix it yourself buddy and may the bluebird of happiness sh** on your shoulder.

[05tdi]

Originally Posted by Homer3D

FYI, it is not recommended that you “jump” an optima battery. To me, without doing further testing, it sounds like your car has a parasitic drain on the battery. I have/had the same problem on another car I have. It is because I go weeks and almost months without driving it. Specially during the rainy season. I picked up a battery tender and have never had a problem since. You can pick one up for about $20 to $50 and just plug your car in when you are not driving it. It is will keep the battery “new” all the time.

I have an Optima as well. I use a specific “tender” made for Optima/AGM batteries. BatteryMINDer® Plus AGM/OPTIMA Maintenance Charger / Desulfator-Conditioner 12 Volt – 1.0 Amp | All | Battery Chargers by BatteryMINDers.com

It works great. I can go a month without driving my car and it starts up like it has a new battery every time. Save your money from buying new batteries every couple of years and just get a battery tender.

I'll look into the battery tender. My only problem is that I park in a community garage with no plugs. By the way, have you read or heard something about not jumping Optima? I've never heard of that and tried doing a quick google search and couldn't find anything.

[05tdi]

Originally Posted by jason m

what an a**. fix it yourself buddy and may the bluebird of happiness sh** on your shoulder.

I'm an ass? I am fixing it myself thank you. Don't know why people like you troll forums when you obviously have no logical input what-so-ever.

[Homer3D]

Originally Posted by 05tdi

By the way, have you read or heard something about not jumping Optima? I've never heard of that and tried doing a quick google search and couldn't find anything.

It was an email I received from Optima themselves. I emailed them asking about specifics about jump starting their batteries. Their reply...

Except in emergent situations we don't recommend jump starting an Optima battery. The high surge of amperage can cause the battery to heat up excessively leading to premature battery failure.

[05tdi]

Ok good to know. I wonder then what they expect someone to do in a pinch when the battery dies. I'm going to do it later today, I'll post here if it blows up. Good thing it has a long warranty.

[jason m]

Originally Posted by 05tdi

I'm an ass? I am fixing it myself thank you. Don't know why people like you troll forums when you obviously have no logical input what-so-ever.

I am a master certified ASE tech> i did not read youre second post about the battery not even trying. Most posts for help do not have enough basic info to help troubleshoot the condition. If your initial post had the info about the battery not even trying i would have asked the same thing about do you hear the starter click, lights dim, etc? If the interior lighs do not dim when you try to start it indicates that no additional load is being placed on the elecrtrical syste ( signal to starter not complete) But instead of posting for help why dont you go out with a DVOM and find the problem youself.

[Homer3D]

Originally Posted by jason m

I am a master certified ASE tech> i did not read youre second post about the battery not even trying. Most posts for help do not have enough basic info to help troubleshoot the condition. If your initial post had the info about the battery not even trying i would have asked the same thing about do you hear the starter click, lights dim, etc? If the interior lighs do not dim when you try to start it indicates that no additional load is being placed on the elecrtrical syste ( signal to starter not complete) But instead of posting for help why dont you go out with a DVOM and find the problem youself.

I am not sure if that is the post 05tdi is refering to. I think his comments were directed to NewBeetleMechanic when he asked him to check his oil/antifreeze regarding a battery issue. I am not ASE certified and I do not claim to know more than a mechanic, but I am pretty sure I would not ask about fluid levels when troubleshooting a battery issue. Maybe I am wrong.

[DZLBUG]

Originally Posted by NewBeetleMechanic

When you say its been getting harder and harder to start, that says to me the cat converter is plugged... Is the oil full? Antifreeze?

The questions go on and on.

Dealer mechanics...





First realize this, Optima batteries are no good for TDI's. They have nowhere near the required capacity to deal with the glow plugs and high amp starter. Get a battery from the dealer, just make sure they give you a battery for a TDI. The gasser batteries aren't powerful enough. Batteries from the dealer are priced competitively and are quality units.

That said, I think you have something else going on, but its hard to tell based off the info you have provided. Has the engine, at any time, ever needed long cranking times to start? That would point to a failing lift pump in the tank. But just because its making noise when you turn the key doesn't mean its bad. They make noise when they work.

I would carefully check/clean all battery, starter and ground connections. If there is poor connection, there can be power to the lights and everything, but when a high load is placed on it (like starting), it doesn't work. When you say that the starter "doesn't even try," what do you mean? Do the lights dim/go out when trying to crank it?

Does it click or make any other noise? Or does it not do anything at all? Is this a manual or automatic? If auto, there is a Park/Neutral start relay. If manual, there is the clutch interlock switch and its relay. If these are not working, then it will inhibit the starter from cranking over.

[CGK]

OK.
Getting back to the original problem of the TDI not starting, it sounds to me like you may have a bad "engine (crankshaft) speed sensor".
This sensor is located on the bottom right hand side of the engine block as you are facing it from the front.
The engine will not start unless a minimum crankshaft turning speed is met. If the engine will not start with a freshly charged battery, then I would suspect the speed sensor.
It's not a very expensive part but an essential one in order to make the engine start.
Of course, the assumption here is that the fuel lift pump is functioning properly and if you can hear it running, I would assume that it is.
I had the exact same problem with my 04 BEW TDI and replacing the sensor all was well.

[kcfoxie]

Ok I'm going to weigh in now.

1) Does it start with a jump *every* time?
1a) Disconnect the positive from the Optima battery and attach the jumper to it, leave the ground attached to the battery and attach the jumper clamp to it... tho I don't buy into the "No jumping" an optima battery, I also don't believe in paying the dealer price for a battery. I use an 850CCA Marine battery, I removed my airbox and installed a cone filter to make it fit. Much cheaper, lasts a long time. I digress....

2) The PD (what you have, 100HP TDI) has a lift pump in the tank that's akin to the fuel pump in a gasser. As you are or are not aware diesels use an injection pump, but yours did away with that and has "unit injects" -- in the head. Basically your camshaft pressurizes the injectors and nozzles (one unit) and does the work of what my car has in an external, belt-driven pump. Fancy. Anyway, if the lift pump isn't making noise when the key is on I suspect a fuel issue. Easy way to test: pop the "to engine" fuel line and attach a clear hose to it and turn the key, the lift pump should pressurize the system and squirt some fuel out. NO squirt? You got an issue. I'm unsure if all PDs are like my BRM with the canister filter (very close to the design of the oil filter, it's just a cartridge). If it is, remove the fuel in the canister housing and cycle the key 5 times waiting 20-seconds between cycles. This SHOULD put the fuel filter housing back to full. If it's not full or there is no fuel, you've got a failing lift pump.

3) It's plausible you've got a draining issue going on that is electrical and I'm not even sure where to tell you to begin. However that would only be the case if: (a) the lift pump works fine (see #2 for testing) and (b) it always starts with a jump.

Get back to me on these and I'll see what else I can help you with. I apologize for everyone else's rudeness and miscommunication. Sometimes people let the whole "I am the helpful one here" get in the way of actually helping.

And if you decide to give up on it, I'll buy the car off you... if it's an automatic it would be idea for my mother.