My bug is frozen! Won't start!

[bwilburn79]

This will be a lengthy story but I want to provide as much info as possible. My car is a '01 NB GLS TDI with 125k. I bought it in July with 115k just after a dealer TB change. The car runs like a top and averages 45+ mpg. However it has proven stubborn during starting in sub freezing temps. It always starts and runs fine, though I've had to use a jump box or cables to suppliment the weakening battery a couple of times. Three days ago the temps dropped to about 10 F around here overnight and the car wouldn't start before depleting the battery the next morning. I hooked it up to my wifes van via cables and got it to start. When it did it produced a large cloud of whitish smoke which smelled alot more like burning diesel than usual. It evened out and was idling fine so I disconnected the cables and moved the van. (approx 2 min) As I went to get into the car it died suddenly without any real sputtering or such. I immediatley tried to restart with no success. Since then I have tried multiple times each day to start the car. I've used cables and charged the battery but it still seems to struggle to spin the motor fast. Thought about purchasing a new battery but I should be able to get the car started with cables or a booster box right? It hasn't attempted to fire in three days. Since the first morning the temp has barely made it into the high 20's F during the day. I'm thinking maybe ice in the lines or filter? Gelled fuel? What to do?

[Tico4Life]

I would think gelled fuel, not ice. Did you try any additives? I always use them since the beginning of winter until spring and never had a single problem with diesel gelling up on me. Extreme cold weather also weakens batteries.

[Palmettoguy]

Take your battery to Auto Zone and have them bench test it.
After it fails bench test, install new battery

Seriously, just take the batt to any auto parts store and have them bench test it. Sounds like it's toast.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

x2! Once a battery has enough bad cells, as long as you still have it connected, it will draw so much of the power that you are jumpering into the car, that the engine won't crank, you'll be lucky if you even get a click out of the solenoid. Hello... It had been telling you it was going bad!

[jason m]

Do you wait on cold mornings till the glow plug light goes off? Do you notice a difference if you wait for it to turn off or not? You may have a glow plug issue. I agree with the battery but make sure you are letting the glow plugs work before trying to start.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Well, under normal conditions, that would be a given, but...

Originally Posted by bwilburn79

It always starts and runs fine, though I've had to use a jump box or cables to suppliment the weakening battery a couple of times. Sounds a little contradictory to me!

[Palmettoguy]

Originally Posted by MyOtherRidesAVette

Well, under normal conditions, that would be a given, but...

LMFAO...
MORAV, Do you watch alot of Matlock and Murder She Wrote???

[jason m]

Originally Posted by Palmettoguy

LMFAO...
MORAV, Do you watch alot of Matlock and Murder She Wrote???

good night all I am going to the hacienda.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Night Buddy!

[doublebarrel]

You might have a starter going bad on you.Mine got to where it wasn't turning the engine over fast enough to start.The colder it got the slower it would crank.I took the starter to the parts place and they tested it and said it was good.I bought a new one anyway and it cured my starting problems.

[my98tdi]

i had the same problem with my car. Altough mine is a 98 which is alil different than your 01, you may want to replace your glow plug relay first. that did it on my car. just a thought.

[kisabug]

I replaced the battery in my '99 GLS last weekend. It was an old battery (at least 4 years old since the last charge), long before I purchased it last year. I added gasoline antifreeze (you probably know about that better than I do). Definitely get the battery checked and/or replace it, it's a simpler and somewhat cheaper solution (or at least by process of elimination). When my NB "died", the battery light didn't come on. We couldn't jump start it at all. I waited a few days and tried again, and finally the light come on.

Question: VW doesn't make block heaters for bugs (right?) but is it possible to have a battery warmer?

[Smileybug]

I bet its just a dying battery. Diesels take a lot of juice to get cranked with the glow plugs, and with it being so cold lately its super important that the battery is good. If its weak at all, you're going to have real problems starting.

[bwilburn79]

Thanks all for the helpful replies. I'm of course praying that a new battery will take care of the problem. Planning to purchase a Duralast H6-DLG, $156.99 at AutoZone tomorrow. Even if it isn't the entire issue I need a strong battery to see me through the winter. I do wait for the glow plug cycle and I've even tried consecutive cycles as suggested on tdiclub.com. My main concern is that the car successfully started and abrubtly died about 3 minutes later during a smooth idle. It's never done anything like that before. And what about the excessive smoke at startup? Could I have a timing issue?

[DZLBUG]

Originally Posted by bwilburn79

...just after a dealer TB change...

...When it did it produced a large cloud of whitish smoke which smelled alot more like burning diesel than usual....

Some key items there. While smoke and heavy diesel smell is normal during a cold start, extended cranking along with smoke is indicative of a botched TB install. They either did a mark and pray, or didn't bother to check/adjust the start of injection timing. Your injection timing is retarded, so its not firing easily and it is pushing unburned fuel out the exhaust. Do you know what parts they replaced? 99.99% of dealers cut corners and don't replace all the required parts; timing belt, water pump, tensioner, 3 rollers and numerous stretch bolts.

I would strongly advise taking it to a competent TDI mechanic for a thorough inspection, and possibly a TB re-do among any other necessary repairs.

This is likely the primary cause of your issues, but there may be other factors at work. A weak battery or starter (or even just dirty/corroded connections) could be causing the slow cranking. The stalling after it started could be fuel gelling. Try some Power Service Diesel 911 (red bottle) and see what happens. I'm not sure how well the fuel stations down there treat their fuel for cold temps like you've been having. Running some Power Service (white bottle) with every tank would be a good idea in the winter months.

Come on over to the forums at Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community - lots to learn there.

[macdave]

I'd guess its the fuel, they might not sell winter mix there. Like he just said powerservice in the red bottle should ungel it and the white bottle should keep new fuel flowing. They might not sell either of those around you either because it doesn't normally get cold. Getting the car into a warm garage or shop could also help ungel it

Any group 48 battery will do, Walmart has them for around $70. The Deka 48AGM(over $150) is the best, but you shouldn't need it in a warm area.

[bwilburn79]

I just installed an Optima 34R Red top in my NB. It is just a little tall which makes closing the battery box properly an issue. However it is strong and turns the engine easily. I have rolled it over atleast 50 times with no start. Temp is now 38 and climbing. I'm wondering what to do next? I still suspect gelling and/or other fuel delivery issue. I have a replacement filter but thought changing it just to push gelled fuel into it might be futile? Should I be able to hear a fuel pump whine? How might I check to see if I'm getting fuel up to the filter? engine?

BTW, I appreciate all the help. I know newbies can be a pain. Anyone recommend a competent TDI guru near Selmer, Tn? TDIclub says:

European Service Works
5221 Pleasant View Rd
Memphis, TN 38134
(901) 372-7050

[macdave]

There is no in tank fuel pump, just the one on the engine. You can loosen one of the injector lines and watch for fuel while someone cranks it.

[Lew]

You said you changed your fuel filter. Did you fill the new filter with diesel. If not you have air in the lines. Get the air out and fresh diesel to the injectors and it will crank.

[DZLBUG]

Originally Posted by bwilburn79

I just installed an Optima 34R Red top in my NB. It is just a little tall which makes closing the battery box properly an issue. However it is strong and turns the engine easily. I have rolled it over atleast 50 times with no start. Temp is now 38 and climbing. I'm wondering what to do next? I still suspect gelling and/or other fuel delivery issue. I have a replacement filter but thought changing it just to push gelled fuel into it might be futile? Should I be able to hear a fuel pump whine? How might I check to see if I'm getting fuel up to the filter? engine?

BTW, I appreciate all the help. I know newbies can be a pain. Anyone recommend a competent TDI guru near Selmer, Tn? TDIclub says:

European Service Works
5221 Pleasant View Rd
Memphis, TN 38134
(901) 372-7050

Congrats on buying an overpriced and underpowered crap battery for a TDI. The low reserve capacity of an Optima battery makes it a very poor choice for a TDI. You might get by with it considering your more temperate climate, but up here da north country, you'd be stranded very quick.

As macdave said, there is no pump in the tank of your car, the injection pump handles all of that. To see if you're getting fuel, crack loose one of the injector line nuts, only about a 1/2 turn or so and then crank the engine and see if fuel squirts out. If it does, the engine is getting fuel and you have other problems. If it doesn't, then you gelled up. When re-tightening the injector line, don't go caveman on it. If you over-tighten, the ferrule on the line will be damaged and cause it to leak.

If you get fuel, you have a couple other checks to make:

- Check to make sure the anti-shudder valve is open and not sticking shut.

- There are other possible causes, see here for more info and troubleshooting info: Car won't start troubleshooting - TDIClub Forums

If you don't get fuel:

- When turning the key to the ON position, does your glow plug light turn on? It should always at least flash for a second. If not, then you have a bad relay 109. They are known to flake out and will cause a no-start condition as it supplies power to the ECU.

- Change the fuel filter. If it did gel up, the filter gets plugged with wax that dropped out of suspension. Treat the fuel in the tank with Power Service Diesel 911, it should be available at most any parts store.