Anyone here run on vegi oil??

[theslag]

http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm

I came upon this web site and thought that it was interesting. Anyone here doing this with their TDI and how does it work and was it easy to install???

Thanks!!

[iScott]

I saw that on the Food Channel one time. Very cool. If you have one you better be hitting by McDonald's and the BK Lounge. Free fuel.

[jpdeuce]

Originally Posted by theslag

http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm

I came upon this web site and thought that it was interesting. Anyone here doing this with their TDI and how does it work and was it easy to install???

Thanks!!

There's a ton of info here and on tdiclub about this. It's a pretty cool kit but it's not nearly as easy as Bio Diesel. Firstly, it takes some serious modification. Secondly, you start up and shut down on regular diesel but run the car for the most part on SVO or WVO (straight vegetable oil or waste vegetable oil). So you have 2 tanks in the car that you switch back and forth from. Thirdly, you have to find a source for the SVO or WVO and prepare it for use in the car. I don't know much about this part but I would imagine several filters cleaning it up before it gets in the car. Fourthly, I hear finding a quality source can be somewhat difficult, but the easier you make it on them the better...meaning you will need to provide them drums to dump the stuff in and you need to haul it off.

Anyway...it's a great concept but probably too much trouble for the average TDI owner. It's pretty cool though if you can deal with all the other stuff. I'd just rather pay for Bio D personally...but I just have too much stuff going on to go through all that trouble for fuel.

[Porkchop]

Another good site I like is frybrid.com.

The reason you have to run the car for about 10-20 minutes on regular diesel before you can switch over to the grease is viscosity. The vegi-oil is too thick to expect it to flow to the injectors when you start the engine cold. That is why biodiesel is different - it may come from the same sources (such as vegetable oil) but has been refined to be thinner and to flow more like diesel fuel. In fact, you can build your own bio reactor out of standard plumbing supplies and make your own biodiesel at home (hunt around at www.homepower.com to find the article).

I just purchased an '84 Mercedes turbo diesel wagon that I will be running on biodiesel soon. I don't like the greasecar conversion because of the extra tank and the additional hassle of filtering used cooking oil. There are two places locally to buy biodiesel in the north metro atlanta area - one about 30 miles west of me (in Rome, GA) and one about 30 miles south of me (Marietta, GA). The one south of me (S.A. White) is selling a concotion made of chicken fat. What is great is when I checked the price last week, it was selling for $2.35 per gallon while regular diesel was $2.65 per gallon. Plus it runs cleaner and probably yields better mileage. I will soon see.

[Dorado]

I run biodiesel which requires no conversion or mods, but I've been thinking about the Elsbett conversion:

www.elsbett.com

They also modify the injector nozzles to match better with straight veggie oil. The other conversion kits only heat and filter a separate veggie oil tank, and you hope for the best in terms of combustion. Now I believe I've only read about good results with them so far.

[ChristopherC]

Never ran on it but I slipped once and fell.


Sorry, couldn't resist.

[YellowBeetle]

I got my yellowBeetle converted last year and have been running on restaurant grease since. It has been great, and has gotten me involved in a whole new community of interesting people, who are into alt fuels.

I looked into bio-D for over a year and it seemed really impractical for me in my circumstances. I don't want to get into making it (those wonderful household chemicals, lye and methanol) and there is nowhere nearby that sells it. There seemed to be a number of cold-weather issues that I didn't want to get into, especially as a service person that goes from house to house.

I saw the link to Greasecar and that has worked really well for me. I typically get around 2,000 miles on a tank of diesel, usually go fill up about once a month. That's after filling up twice a week in my old Ford Focus! I've found it only takes about 5 minutes for the car to heat up in the winter before I switch over; it's not very practical for short commutes, but I do a lot of driving and it saves me a lot of money. A block heater or radiator fluid heater would reduce the 5 minutes further if desired. Getting the oil and filtering takes a little time, but it's easy to do and FREE. For me it's more about relying less on foreign oil, and the veggie oil is a lot less polluting.

Running on vegoil or bio-d is really only a small answer to a very large and impending problem. If they can get hydrogen or battery technology to be practical for everyday use, I'd be there in a heartbeat. I don't think we'll be there anytime soon, though. Still a long ways to go.

I have a webpage I put together about the yellowBeetle if anyone's interested:
www.blackstonepiano.com/tutorial/vegcar.htm

Colin

[Dorado]

Nice writeup Colin, thanks!

I definitely like the aluminum aux tank in the spare tire wheel. Did you get a smaller spare tire and store it somewhere else?

Also, any more tips on filtering the collected oil at home would be helpful.

[KansasDiesel]

Originally Posted by Dorado

Nice writeup Colin, thanks!

I definitely like the aluminum aux tank in the spare tire wheel. Did you get a smaller spare tire and store it somewhere else?

Also, any more tips on filtering the collected oil at home would be helpful.

I am in the Research and Development stage of producing a kit just for the TDI. I have run a Mercedes for over 14,000 miles running on Veg oil, and in addition have run over 12,000 mile on veg in a 96 Ford F350, I have a VW Beetle TDI that am working on the kit for. I say this just so You know my experience, I have been involved in VO for over 2 years.

The filtering and dewatering process is the MOST IMPORTANT part of running veggie oil in your car/truck. There are also as many ways to do it as there are people. Look at this site www.frybrid.com and look in the filtering section of the fourm. Any questions PM me and I will try to answer them.

[WolfieG]

Very old thread, but I'm putting it out there to see if any one is currently running BioD or WVO?

I've been in touch with a local High School to see if their Auto Shop students would be interested in doing the conversion to my TDI this spring as a school project, utilizing their own cafeteria's waste oil as fuel.

[Smileybug]

I know there are a few people on here who run biodiesel, at least B20. Not sure if anyone runs pure B100 bio or not. I would personally go for that over WVO or SVO because those require conversion kits, meanwhile bio requires none. A friend of mine ran B100 in his '06 Jetta TDI and had no issues (I think he dropped to B90 in the winter months to help the gelling).

There is also home brewing, where you get the WVO and turn it into bio yourself. That way, you can use the waste, but you don't have to do a conversion on your car.

[WolfieG]

There is only one source of B100 near me (30 minute drive), so I can't justify the added mileage/time to get it.

Home-brewing. I have friends that do that locally, but again, too much time and you're left with waste Glycerin that you then have to dispose of.

SVO has initial costs to convert, but the time to self-filter is minimal, and the operational costs (less start up and purging w/ diesel) are virtually zero.

Originally Posted by Smileybug

I know there are a few people on here who run biodiesel, at least B20. Not sure if anyone runs pure B100 bio or not. I would personally go for that over WVO or SVO because those require conversion kits, meanwhile bio requires none. A friend of mine ran B100 in his '06 Jetta TDI and had no issues (I think he dropped to B90 in the winter months to help the gelling).

There is also home brewing, where you get the WVO and turn it into bio yourself. That way, you can use the waste, but you don't have to do a conversion on your car.

[DZLBUG]

If you're going to run WVO or SVO, buy an old Merc 300D or something else that can actually run the crap. It has no place in a modern, electronically-controlled and direct-injected diesel engine like the TDI. Just because old Rudolph's diesel engine could run on peanut oil, doesn't mean your TDI can. TDI's were meant to run on modern and clean diesel fuel.

Running WVO/SVO causes severe engine damage, I have yet to see one long-term conversion that has been run successfully with no ill-effects to the engine.

This is a TDI engine:
(notice how nice and CLEAN it is)




This is a TDI engine on veggie oil:

[WolfieG]

Originally Posted by DZLBUG

If you're going to run WVO or SVO, buy an old Merc 300D or something else that can actually run the crap.

For some of us petroleum products are the true 'crap'....

Originally Posted by DZLBUG

Running WVO/SVO causes severe engine damage, I have yet to see one long-term conversion that has been run successfully with no ill-effects to the engine.

Have you personally seen these engine failures? Were they directly caused by the use of WVO, or failures due to other factors (wear, abuse, timing belts, etc...)? I'm sure I could track down just as many internal pics of TDI's that have blown themselves apart that have only ever run on Diesel.

It frustrates me sometimes how narrow minded people can be about new technology (or old as this case is) and pioneering ideas. If it wasn't for people stretching their mental legs every so often we would have never gotten into space, or even discovered the new world.

I didn't ask your opinion on the viability of running WVO in a TDI. I asked if anyone was running it, or had first hand knowledge.

"I have a friend, who knows a guy, who's cousin once told him that he had heard about...." doesn't help me, sir.

[Smileybug]

I don't know anyone who has run WVO/SVO in a newer TDI engine. I know someone who ran their Mercedes wagon on it though. Ran fine. But it was a hassle of a system, as he had to have a switch so he could run diesel until the car warmed up, then switch to the SVO (which is what he was running in that car), then swtich back to diesel before shutting the car off to keep the oil from sitting in the fuel lines (mostly importatn when its colder out). Since you are in Canada, having this type of setup is a necessity! SVO/WVO will gel up in the cold.

I'm with DZLBUG in that I personally wouldn't run WVO or SVO in a newer TDI engine. I would be hesitant to run it in my '84 TD even. I would assume its a good reason you don't really hear about WVO/SVO in more modern engines but you hear about it like crazy in older diesels (mostly Mercedes).

You also have to remember that the oil is entirely different than diesel. Biodiesel has a similar chemical composition to petro diesel so its more compatible across the board.

[DZLBUG]

testing

hmmm...why can't I post my reply but I can post this?

[DZLBUG]

For some of us petroleum products are the true 'crap'....

Well aren't you just so green? Isn't that special?

Have you personally seen these engine failures? Were they directly caused by the use of WVO, or failures due to other factors (wear, abuse, timing belts, etc...)? I'm sure I could track down just as many internal pics of TDI's that have blown themselves apart that have only ever run on Diesel.

Yes, in person and documented evidence online. The failures are a DIRECT result of WVO. Given proper clean diesel fuel, 10k mile oil change intervals using the correct oil, regular timing belt changes and injection system maintenance these engines will happily run 500,000 without breaking a sweat. They are designed to last over 1 million miles.

WVO causes stuck piston rings and worn cylinder walls, polymerized oil which causes bearing, camshaft and turbo failures, injection pump failures, injector failures resulting in burned pistons and a multitude of other failures. The use of WVO/SVO also creates incomplete combustion, reduces fuel economy and increases emissions. Look at the exhaust valves pictured above, look at how coked up they are with unburned grease and the engine oil that has leaked past the piston rings. All that crap is going right out the tailpipe, plugging up the catalytic converter and going out into the atmosphere. These failures are unique to WVO use and do not happen in TDI's which strictly run petroleum diesel or biodiesel.

[DZLBUG]

It frustrates me sometimes how narrow minded people can be about new technology (or old as this case is) and pioneering ideas. If it wasn't for people stretching their mental legs every so often we would have never gotten into space, or even discovered the new world.

Well, it frustrates me to see smug people like you extol the virtues of running grease with no concept of the consequences. I'm not narrow minded, if you want to run grease...fine...I dont care. You just need to realize the facts and consequences of its use in a TDI engine. Rudolph Diesel designed his engine to run on a mixture of gasoline and coal dust. He ran it on peanut oil as an experiment and promotion to show the versatility of his compression ignition engine design. It did not run well or for very long however. Eventually, middle distillate fuels showed much more promise for reliable power production. Diesel fuels have progressed significantly since then, and modern diesel engines are specifically designed to run on modern diesel fuel.

I didn't ask your opinion on the viability of running WVO in a TDI. I asked if anyone was running it, or had first hand knowledge.

So what? It is important information that you, and others who read this, should know. I have first hand knowledge of this, not in my own personal car, but from people I know and cars I have worked on. I've seen the damage with my own eyes, how much more "first-hand knowledge" do you need?

If you are so concerned about the environment, and sticking it to the "big evil oil companies," how is it that a poorly-running and dirty diesel helps your cause? How green is it, to be burning motor oil due to WVO damage? How green is it, to hasten the demise of an engine long before its time? How economical is it, to run WVO for 100k miles and save $7500 in fuel...but then have to spend that much money and more for increased maintenance costs and repairs from the use of WVO?

WVO is not a viable fuel source for a multitude of reasons. Biodiesel and GTL fuels are the future.

[DZLBUG]

Sorry for the multiple posts, I had some weird errors popping up and couldn't post it in one message.

[WolfieG]

Originally Posted by DZLBUG

I have first hand knowledge of this, not in my own personal car, but from people I know and cars I have worked on. I've seen the damage with my own eyes, how much more "first-hand knowledge" do you need?

Care to be helpful and put me in touch with those people that have THEMSELVES had engine damage from running WVO? That is, afterall, what I was originally asking for. I wasn't looking for a debate on how to save the planet.

Originally Posted by DZLBUG

How economical is it, to run WVO for 100k miles and save $7500 in fuel...but then have to spend that much money and more for increased maintenance costs and repairs from the use of WVO?

If we get 4 more years on the road (100k miles) on a 1998 Beetle without the body panels or frame rotting off it I'll be thrilled. So saving $7500 in fuel costs seems pretty economical to me. In fact, that would be enough savings to buy another 10 year old diesel powered vehicle once this one has worn out. But, in 4 years, we'll all be running hybrids or straight electric anyways....

Originally Posted by DZLBUG

WVO is not a viable fuel source for a multitude of reasons. Biodiesel and GTL fuels are the future.

Biodiesel is NOT a sustainable fuel source. The agricultural demands to produce it as a national replacement fuel are unachievable, it requires chemicals to produce, has waste products that need to be disposed of (Glycerin), and the cost at the pump is only marginally cheaper than diesel. At least WVO is taking a waste product and finding a 2nd use for it.



Again, if you aren't able to get me in touch with people who are currently using, or have used in the past (successfully or unsuccessfully) WVO in a TDI I honestly have no use for your opinions on the systems.

Take care.