99 Beetle starts but wont stay running

[abrison]

We have a 1999 VW Beetle, 2.0 gasoline engine, automatic transmission. We bought it about 7 months ago for our daughter's High School graduation.

It had just been to the VW service and the check engine light was on saying bad MAF sensor. We replaced the MAF sensor and the light came on a few weeks later, MAF sensor again, the light has stayed on since then but it seemed to run fine.

A couple weeks ago, our daughter was driving it back to college (in the rain). It started "jerking" and didn't want to go up hills. She had just filled the gas tank so we thought she got some water in the gas. She put injector cleaner in it and continued on her trip and it seemed to straighten up.

The next day, I put gas in my old truck at the same station where she had gotten it and the pump ran super slow as if they were almost out of gas. So this sort of confirmed to me that she had just gotten gas with water or trash in it.

We were driving the Beetle a few days ago (in the rain). And it started "jerking" again while going up a hill, the check engine light also flashed a couple times. It seemed like it could not decide which gear to be in. It finally got to the point it would only run if you pumped the gas pedal. Then it finally died and would not stay running. It will start every time, but will not stay running, give it gas, it dies, dont give it gas, it dies.

We hauled it home on a flatbed trailer, replaced the fuel filter and it still does the same thing (starts but wont stay running). Took out the air filter and it was soaked with water so much that you could have rung it out and there was no less than a cup of sand under the air filter (I assume from the roads being sanded during a recent snow storm).

This water and sand was not there when we replaced the MAF sensor 6 months ago (but it wasnt rainy then either).

So, I was wondering if anyone else here has had a problem with their Beetle sucking water into the intake like a shop vac? And any ideas of what could be causing it to start but not stay running?

Our daughter needs it to go back to college first part of January. And we dont have a ton of money to spend on a mechanic.

I figured we would start with the MAF sensor and go from there. Suspected the catalact converter too but have never heard it make any noises that point to that.

I borrowed a scanner from Oreillys Autoparts. Got the following codes, P102 and P304. Cleared the codes and started the car a couple times, then scanned again and only got the P102 code.

The guy at Oreillys looked the codes up in the book and said that P102 was the MAF sensor and P304 is cylinder 4 misfire.

If the coil pack is bad, would it still start? It starts perfectly every time, but dies right after starting.

Added fuel drier to the gas tank and let it sit overnight, still doing the same thing.

Sometimes the car runs longer than other times by pumping the gas pedal.

If we disconnect the MAF sensor and my husband holds his hand over the hole (almost covering the whole thing), it will stay running without pumping the gas pedal.

[gilligan]

Did she drive it into a lake or something? I find it hard to believe sand got past the filter let alone a cupful of sand. something is fishey if you ask me. are you sure you didnt buy a flood car from katrina because that would be my second guess.

I had a second thought the only way this could happen is if the inner wheel well is actually damaged or missing allowing the front drivers wheel to continually throw water and sand into the snowbox which is where the motor gets its air supply. I will hunt up the snowbox thread and post it here for you in a few minutes.
Heres the thread. How-To - Snowbox Removal
also this thread. http://newbeetle.org/forums/technical-modifications/4103-anyone-has-pictures-what-snowbox-post51290.html

[abrison]

There is no plastic under the left front wheel well. There was no water or sand in the filter housing when we replaced the MAF sensor. The car was running fine until it started raining.

[hannaco]

Something to check is the high voltage circuits. With the car running, and in dim light, mist water over the spark plug wires, and coil pack. Look for blue sparks. If you see the wires sparking (look at number 3 closely), they need replacement. If the coil pack show sparking, then inspect for cracks. Some people have been able to "fix" the problem by filling in the cracks with epoxy. Otherwise it needs to be replaced.

[kcfoxie]

The dying MAF has me concerned. It shouldn't go out again so quickly. Have you checked the vacuum lines by chance? Were the plugs and wires replaced, etc? You could have a failing fuel pump or fuel pump relay?

[whitedog]

Will the MAF cause the engine to not run? I don't think it would.

Would sucking water across the MAF cause the MAF to fail? I bet it would.

Would sucking water into the engine damage it so it won't start? Possible.

Pull the spark plugs disable the coil and crank over the engine. See if your engine turns into a water fountain.

Hopefully it won't.

[gilligan]

Originally Posted by abrison

There is no plastic under the left front wheel well. There was no water or sand in the filter housing when we replaced the MAF sensor. The car was running fine until it started raining.

when you say theres no plastic under the wheel well do you mean theres no inner fender well? Because thats my guess that the wheel is flinging the water and dirt right into the intake hole on the snowbox.

[SilverSportNOLA]

I would go for plugs and wires and coilpack being the problems ... as for the water ... it must not have the inner fender in place. I wasn't too close for Katrina, but have not gotten either sand or water into my airbox, I don't have the snowbox anymore. Find where the water is getting in, from what I remember of the snowbox ... you can fill it up and then the engine will become a waterpump. If you have the inner fender liner, check the area around the headlight on the drivers side ... water can be forced in past the seal while driving.

Pull the plugs and spin it over to spray out any water in the engine, once you solve it change the oil ... water would get down there if the pistons saw water. As for the MAF .... solve the cause of the problem first, you can disconnect the MAF and still drive the car, will burn a little more gas, give you a CEL and ESP will not function ... but better than keep on replacing it till the problem is solved.

[abrison]

Originally Posted by gilligan

when you say theres no plastic under the wheel well do you mean theres no inner fender well? Because thats my guess that the wheel is flinging the water and dirt right into the intake hole on the snowbox.

Yep, the fender lining is missing on the front driver's side wheel. I noticed the black plastic was gone in that wheel well when we bought it, but had no idea about the snow box until this problem arose and got on these forums.

[abrison]

Originally Posted by kcfoxie

The dying MAF has me concerned. It shouldn't go out again so quickly. Have you checked the vacuum lines by chance? Were the plugs and wires replaced, etc? You could have a failing fuel pump or fuel pump relay?

The plugs and wires were supposedly changed by the dealer a few days before we bought it. Vacuum lines seem to be intact. Fuel pump humms when the driver's door is opened as well as when key is turned over. Fuel filter is full of fuel.

I have ordered a coil pack for it and bought new spark plugs. Going to try some of the suggestions you guys posted. Will post results. Thanks to everyone for their input.

[abrison]

Ok,

I took out plugs and turned it over, no water coming out.

Removed the snow box, had trouble getting it out from under the fender, so I cut the rubber hose that connects the two parts together. There was mud completly blocking the inside of the rubber hose.

Can't keep it running long enough to spritz the coil and wires with water. That'll have to wait until hubby is home from work to help!

It smells like it is not burning all the gas, and sometimes it tries to back fire if I pump the footpedal a lot. So maybe the coil is not putting out a hot enough spark. I ordered one anyway so I guess we will know when it gets here. I do see a crack in the coil where one of the screws holds it on.

[gilligan]

Originally Posted by abrison

Ok,

I took out plugs and turned it over, no water coming out.

Removed the snow box, had trouble getting it out from under the fender, so I cut the rubber hose that connects the two parts together. There was mud completly blocking the inside of the rubber hose.

Can't keep it running long enough to spritz the coil and wires with water. That'll have to wait until hubby is home from work to help!

It smells like it is not burning all the gas, and sometimes it tries to back fire if I pump the footpedal a lot. So maybe the coil is not putting out a hot enough spark. I ordered one anyway so I guess we will know when it gets here. I do see a crack in the coil where one of the screws holds it on.

well if there was about a coffee can of sand running through the motor I think I would do a compression check. that much sand could wipe out the cylinders. poor motor.

[SilverSportNOLA]

You also need to clean out the airbox and changed the air filter. If the filter is not letting air pass through you won't get it to run for long. Order the fender liner also. Hopefully the tabs are still attached around the fender to bolt it into ... if so make sure the captive nuts are there, you will probably need the bolts to .... best bet is to get it from a junkyard. Any right side beetle ones should fit except from the TurboS.

[abrison]

Originally Posted by SilverSportNOLA

You also need to clean out the airbox and changed the air filter. If the filter is not letting air pass through you won't get it to run for long. Order the fender liner also. Hopefully the tabs are still attached around the fender to bolt it into ... if so make sure the captive nuts are there, you will probably need the bolts to .... best bet is to get it from a junkyard. Any right side beetle ones should fit except from the TurboS.

Yep, already cleaned out the airbox and put in new filter.

[abrison]

Originally Posted by gilligan

well if there was about a coffee can of sand running through the motor I think I would do a compression check. that much sand could wipe out the cylinders. poor motor.

The sand was under the old air filter, I dont think the sand got in the motor, there wasnt any in the air pipe but I did see some water in there when we first took it apart.

I dont have a way to do a compression check, when I had the plugs out, it sounded like it had lots of compression, LOL.
I scrunched up a paper towel and placed it over one of the spark plug holes and it blew it off (I was trying to catch any liquid that might come out of that hole while cranking).

[SilverSportNOLA]

Well ... at least it blew the rag out .... instead of sucking it in. You may need to pull the intake tubing all the way and take a look at the throttle body. I am not a 2.0 Expert ... but I believe the throttle body is cable driven, so less electronics to short out ... but if it is drive by wire like the 1.8T ... that could be a problem also. Be sure to disconnect the MAF and try getting it running. Hopefully it didn't take a few big gulps of water and ruin the Cat Converter. Try getting someone on the tail end when you can start it ... to see if there is exhaust coming out of the tailpipe. It would still happen if the cat is clogged, and might not be noticed till the higher RPM levels.

[whitedog]

Have you tried running it with the air cleaner competely removed? Just take it off at the MAF and see if it runs. This gets rid of all of the air system before the filter and will help you narrow things down.

If you see a crack in the coil pack (that's for those spark things, right? ) then it's probably cooked bread. In other words: Toast. Maybe there is a frined nearby that has a 2.0 in any VW that can loan you theirs for testing? If you do this, be sure to install yours in theirs to see if thiers acted like yours did.

[gilligan]

Originally Posted by abrison

The sand was under the old air filter, I dont think the sand got in the motor, there wasnt any in the air pipe but I did see some water in there when we first took it apart.

I dont have a way to do a compression check, when I had the plugs out, it sounded like it had lots of compression, LOL.
I scrunched up a paper towel and placed it over one of the spark plug holes and it blew it off (I was trying to catch any liquid that might come out of that hole while cranking).

Sorry about that, when you said it was under the filter I thought you were meaning it was past the filter. I'm with that other suggestion you take the filter right out and try to start it. also there is another piece of pipe from the air filter box that heads under the battery box towards the headlight where it turns the corner and goes into the snowbox you removed, make sure you check that for it may also be completely clogged with dirt.
Good Luck.

[abrison]

Originally Posted by whitedog

Have you tried running it with the air cleaner competely removed? Just take it off at the MAF and see if it runs. This gets rid of all of the air system before the filter and will help you narrow things down.

If you see a crack in the coil pack (that's for those spark things, right? ) then it's probably cooked bread. In other words: Toast. Maybe there is a frined nearby that has a 2.0 in any VW that can loan you theirs for testing? If you do this, be sure to install yours in theirs to see if thiers acted like yours did.

We did try running it with the air cleaner removed, took it off from the MAF all the way back. The only way it will run is if my husband holds his hand over the hole, blocking most of it. It has a huge amount of suction and tries to collapse the plastic intake tubing next to his hand.

That would have to be a pretty good friend to let me put a crappy coil pack in their car and risk damage, LOL. But seriously, I dont have any friends (with a VW that is, LOL).

I have the coil pack ordered (cant get anything around here). And the place I bought the MAF sensor from (1stvwparts.com)said it was still under warranty, so if I mail it back to them, they will send me a new one.

[abrison]

Originally Posted by gilligan

Sorry about that, when you said it was under the filter I thought you were meaning it was past the filter. I'm with that other suggestion you take the filter right out and try to start it. also there is another piece of pipe from the air filter box that heads under the battery box towards the headlight where it turns the corner and goes into the snowbox you removed, make sure you check that for it may also be completely clogged with dirt.
Good Luck.

We took the whole airbox out of the car and washed it out with the hose, while it was disconnected, I ran the hose down that pipe that leads to the front of the car and the water flowed freely so hopefully it is clear. I will take another look at it before we try to start it again though. Would hate to cause more problems by missing something like that.