wont start, just clicks indicators flash crazy

[proamhsd]

hey gang,
2004 vw nb 2.0 gas [sattelte blue edition]
ok, to fully describe issue at hand:
had battery changed [ few weeks back]
car 'clicks' and indicators lights flash oddly when attemptin to start, doesnt turn over at all, batt charge is ok per charger/starter unit i have.
found some damage in batt top fuss block, but didnt seem to be fatal, but something is goin on in there. black wire terminal showin signs of over heating, and some mild box deformation.
radio has gone into safe 1000 mode, but did work fine after batt replacement....its my wife' ride, but i did drive it and it did fine after the batt change-out. i did find that the batt box wasnt properly reinstalled and very loose. i found a screw missin as well.... all pointed out to pepboys mgr, had car towed in to pepboys this morn.

ive found many discussions about similar probs, none to solution or explanation.

tryin to get an idea of wth is goin on ... any help greatly appreciated,

proamhsd

[JP]

maybe one of the battery cables are loose and not making a good connection

[proamhsd]

Originally Posted by JP

maybe one of the battery cables are loose and not making a good connection

Checked out , OK, very clean and tight

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

You have two, separate and maybe or maybe not related problems. Remember, I'm just the messanger! (lol)

You say they changed the battery a few weeks ago. Why? What was occuring that triggered this? Had, or is there currently an alternator warning light? Everybody calls this a battery light, but it has nothing to do with the battery condition, it indicates a malfunctioning alternator.

First addressing the battery fuse box, it probably looks something like this -



If so, that is in the alternator circuitry. None of these wires are involved in the starter circuit, but it could affect the charging of the battery. The picture is taken from my thread here
MORAV needs some help helping someone else on the Org! - Battery Fuse Box Issue
Which, in turn, was taken from the Oper's original post which is linked there in.

You will find a wiring diagram in that post showing the two separate circuits.



A no start issue will be caused by

1. bad starter switch, this operates the starter solenoid (which requires almost no voltage) this is working properly as is evicenced by the clicking
2. dirty/corroded/loose connection(s) at the battery or at the starter
3. weak or not fully charged battery, which in turn could be the result of your fuse block issue
4. bad battery
5. bad starter cable (unlikely)
6. bad starter, quite often the starter solenoid

PB is going to call you and tell you it is one of the last five, or a combination there of. Promise.

If it, in turn, is a charging problem, you are going to have to resolve the issue with the alternator circuitry immediately (which you ultimately have to address any way). A read through of my thread will give you an idea of the possible causes, the diagnosing, and the possible solutions. Unfortunately, aside from ordering new cables, the OPer there has never come back with the results of all the voltage drop testing, or any other resolve. So typical!

At the end of the day, you may have replaced the starter, the alternator, the battery, the alternator cable (at least one of these items), and the battery fuse box. Of course given it's Sunday, and acquiring a battery fuse box today is unlikely, it may be at the end of the day tomorrow.

Keep us posted.

M.

[proamhsd]

wow, a lot of input , thanks so much, the picture you attached didnt load, can ya try to post a pic again please........

[dnyed]

I, too, got the dreaded red X.

[proamhsd]

QUOTE:You have two, separate and maybe or maybe not related problems. Remember, I'm just the messanger! (lol)

You say they changed the battery a few weeks ago. Why? What was occuring that triggered this? Had, or is there currently an alternator warning light? Everybody calls this a battery light, but it has nothing to do with the battery condition, it indicates a malfunctioning alternator.

we had to replace it due to normal wear tear, they seem to last 3 yrs by everyones input. its our second replacement in the 6 years ownin the car. and NO, no indicators were pointin to a prob with it.

it is throwin codes for airbags and coolin performance tho, or was not sure what is up atm

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Was the picture not laoding in the linked thread either? It is posted at both the top AND the bottom of the first post in that thread. Have to find it so I can re-post it here.
Try this
http://newbeetle.org/forums/attachme...1&d=1316374966
Any luck?

[Blugg]

Originally Posted by proamhsd

they seem to last 3 yrs by everyones input. its our second replacement in the 6 years ownin the car.

3 years ?!? WTF

Both of my Bugs have never needed a replacement and that's 18 years combined

[Smileybug]

No reason to replace a battery just based on age. Mine lasted at least 5 years.

[proamhsd]

Originally Posted by MyOtherRidesAVette

Was the picture not laoding in the linked thread either? It is posted at both the top AND the bottom of the first post in that thread. Have to find it so I can re-post it here.
Try this
http://newbeetle.org/forums/attachme...1&d=1316374966
Any luck?

yes, but mine isnt quite that dark, and no links are broken, at this point im leanin to starter, maybe the black wire replacement, the jacket on it is a lil less then perty

[proamhsd]

more data:
on inspection durin this prob, i found that PB did not replacement the battery properly, the box, holder, and other parts werent secured or even in one case a screw missin, but again, nothing that seemed fatal, just sloppy cruddy work,

i was SO MAD< i wasnt thinkin well, i should of grab pix, my bad

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by Blugg

3 years ?!? WTF

Both of my Bugs have never needed a replacement and that's 18 years combined

Battery life is related to many things. Battery quality, cold cranking amp rating v. cranking amperage needed (are you always taxing the battery to it's limit when strting the car), climatic conditions (excessive heat or cold), frequency of use (a battery that sets for long periods of time, even with no drain, will have a shorter life if it is not kept on a miantenace charger), etc.

I always buy top quality, Die-Hards or Delcos, largest CCA I can buy, longest warrantied battery I can buy, and I still have vehicles that get one to two years. These are 6 and 7 year warranted batteries, but then 60k - 90k miles a year and thousands of starts are not unusual.

[proamhsd]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

No reason to replace a battery just based on age. Mine lasted at least 5 years.

they were both gone, had them both tested. first was free at dealship, second was tested twice and replaced at pepboys

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by proamhsd

more data:
on inspection durin this prob, i found that PB did not replacement the battery properly, the box, holder, and other parts werent secured or even in one case a screw missin, but again, nothing that seemed fatal, just sloppy cruddy work,

i was SO MAD< i wasnt thinkin well, i should of grab pix, my bad

None of the issues stated would cause the starter not to start the car, although the quality of the install would cause me concern that the terminal connectors were not properly cleaned. I have had bad connections at the battery allow full charging but not pass enough amps to start the car. And this is the symptom I am seeing with yours as you said you believe the battery to be charged, and assuming it is, my guess, in order are, 1) dirty or loose connection(s) at battery, 2) bad battery ground at body, 3) undercharged battery, 4) bad battery. In re-reading your original post and further thought, I'm taking the starter out of the mix, becasue of the flashing lights in the instrument cluster and the clicking of the starter solenoid. The vehicle is not getting sufficent voltage.

And as I said, the battery fuse block is another issue, but one that needs to be addressed. Get through this one first, but while it is there have them do an output test on the alternator (load and no-load - simple test but special equipment) once they get it running, to rule that out (voltage regulator failure) as a cause of the overloading at the fuse block.

M

[geniushanbiao]

I think it's the ground cable. You need to remove the battery and its tray to check the connection of the cable to the body(It's under the tray). Once one of my friend had the same problem and I found that it was the battery connection to the chasis loose. Although it was a Honda Accord, I think it might be the same...Also check the ground cable connection to the engine body.

[gorj]

just thought, it is possible that the ignition switch is your problem, one of the wires on mine was melted, and when i checked the the switch for continuity the readings were incorrect.....
any hoot, [[[[[[[[ power is supplied thru the two red wires {{{marked 30 on back of switch}}}} when switch off no continuity, when in run, continuity at black/red and black wire, in the start position only at the red/black and brown/red wire]]]]]]]]]]]]]
hope this helps.....

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by gorj

just thought, it is possible that the ignition switch is your problem, one of the wires on mine was melted, and when i checked the the switch for continuity the readings were incorrect.....
any hoot, [[[[[[[[ power is supplied thru the two red wires {{{marked 30 on back of switch}}}} when switch off no continuity, when in run, continuity at black/red and black wire, in the start position only at the red/black and brown/red wire]]]]]]]]]]]]]
hope this helps.....

Not sure what you are talking about, continuity is simply the ablility for a circuit to be complete. It either is or it isn.t. It's not a "metered" reading. You either have a zero reading or an infinity reading. When testing a switch, for example, touching both contacts with your probes, if the switch is in the "on" position, the reading should be close to zero, and when the switch is off, the reading should be infinity. About the only thing a continuity test can tell you in the ignition circuit is if there is a short.

This link will take you to the best, basic, generic starting system testing I have found for the DITer, with limited knowledge and limited equipment. A digital multimeter is an escentual tool. It's pretty much written in layperson's terms and supplemented with easy to read and understand diagrams.
Training Manual

In the case of the Oper on this thread, the symptoms point to inadequate voltage from the battery (they are classic), what little is available, is completely taken by the starter in attempting to start, and causes the warning and indicator lights to go crazy, and the radio to shut down. When the Oper last posted, his vehicle was at Pep Boys and we were waiting to hear from him what they had found. And we are still waiting. Perhaps tonight!

When your ignition switch took a crap, what were the symptoms? Attempting to start the car resulted in what happening, exactly.

Btw, the defaulted type is much easier for most of us to read, and preferred in normal discourse in a thread.

M.

[proamhsd]

First of all, thanx to everyone for your help !!

Ok, after i played my trump card, [ the info i got here], we found the prob, it was the black alt wire grounding out on the block.

got the car runnin ok, now we are dealin with WHO PAYS FOR IT. I hold fast that THET ARE, they actually broke the batt box and i say all the movement, over an inch, caysed the wire insukl to fail......

Ive got the local VW dealer in the mix on my side actually, ill keep you all informed as to the final outcome, but for now, me gal is rollin again !!

Thanx everyone !!

Alan