NASCAR is dead, long live NASCAR....

[TechnoTrix'd]

Well, here it is gang.

Toyota to build Nextel Cup cars

It's official, the day's of old are gone, replaced with the "corporate" of tomorrow...

As of 2007, Toyota will field Cup and Bush cars along side of the Big 3 American cars. While, I am not against competition, it is a passing of an era in the sport.

Should, and I emphasis "should" make the sport bigger and better. But the loyalty and the overall makeup of the NASCAR fan base will be changed significantly in the years to come.

Part of these changes have been underway for a number of years (see Daytona rebuild and the new super tracks with their luxury boxes and special high-end fan treatment packages), but with Toyota entering the fray, it is only a matter of time before Honda follows. Then I am sure that BMW or Audi might see this as a platform for their sedans (as the demographics change to a more "higher income, white collar" base).

Toyota got through the legal loophole with having some of their truck and sedan production facilities scattered throughout the U.S. This qualified them as an "American Made" manufacture, and NASCAR could not prevent them from petitioning the board for membership.

Well, Honda makes cars here in the U.S. along with the BMW IN their new Z4 plant...

So, the King is dead, long live the "new" King.....TechnoTrix'd......

[TechnoTrix'd]

Ok, now the "good news" from Monday. Diversity is a key focal point with the new NASCAR, and they really promoted the drivers programs which will provide opportunity to both men and women from diverse backgrounds.

I do applaud NASCAR for this, and hope that these young men and women are able to make an impact to the sport.

TechnoTrix'd....

[PhoenixRising]

I think it's great...Of course, since I own two TOYOTA products...let's be honest, though. Ford is about to collapse. And TOYOTA is now the #1 car manufacturer in the world...

So it seems as if the time has come. Now, if VW would to join, then that Herbie movie would seem prophetic.

[larryziegler]

Originally Posted by TechnoTrix'd

Well, here it is gang.

Toyota to build Nextel Cup cars

It's official, the day's of old are gone, replaced with the "corporate" of tomorrow...

As of 2007, Toyota will field Cup and Bush cars along side of the Big 3 American cars. While, I am not against competition, it is a passing of an era in the sport.

Should, and I emphasis "should" make the sport bigger and better. But the loyalty and the overall makeup of the NASCAR fan base will be changed significantly in the years to come.

Part of these changes have been underway for a number of years (see Daytona rebuild and the new super tracks with their luxury boxes and special high-end fan treatment packages), but with Toyota entering the fray, it is only a matter of time before Honda follows. Then I am sure that BMW or Audi might see this as a platform for their sedans (as the demographics change to a more "higher income, white collar" base).

Toyota got through the legal loophole with having some of their truck and sedan production facilities scattered throughout the U.S. This qualified them as an "American Made" manufacture, and NASCAR could not prevent them from petitioning the board for membership.

Well, Honda makes cars here in the U.S. along with the BMW IN their new Z4 plant...

So, the King is dead, long live the "new" King.....TechnoTrix'd......

You are over-drammatizing things just a bit. Toyota and Honda both are involved with open wheel racing, though Toyota is now shifting its focus to NASCAR. Honda does not build 8 cylinder engines like Toyota, so it would be rather surprising to see Honda involved with NASCAR.....not to say that can't or won't happen. Toyota is already involved with the Craftsman Truck Series and is competitive there as well. BMW won't expend the resources to go beyond Formula One, which is a foreign based racing series. BTW, Chrysler is a foreign owned entity now, so what difference is there between Chrysler and Toyota being involved with NASCAR? All in all, I think its a good thing, due to the financial troubles of Ford and GM, especially if they decide they have to retrench from their financial involvement with NASCAR.

[05Beetle18T]

Originally Posted by larryziegler

Honda does not build 8 cylinder engines like Toyota

[larryziegler]

Originally Posted by 05Beetle18T

I could take the easy road out by amending my comment to mean consumer available 8 cylinder engines in current products, as Toyota has. But in further investigation, Honda does have a V8in development for its Ridgeline truck and Acura RL. That definitely would have it as a potential NASCAR competitor. I'll just accept that I didn't do my research about future Honda development and I'll have my crow well done, thank you!

[05Beetle18T]

hey no problem. i just didnt know if you meant they didnt have one at all. but yea the ridgeline should be sweet with a V8.

[Fowvay]

Put me in the category of "Don't care" I have never been a fan of NASCAR and really can't see myself becomeing a fan of a race series based on driving cars in a circle... errr excuse me.. an oval.

Real racers turn left and right and real races are run on either street circuits or on back roads...nuff said.

Tom aka Fowvay

[Porkchop]

And how many years since these cars have been "stock cars" anyway? I say let's get some factory built cars back out there!

[Fowvay]

Originally Posted by Porkchop

And how many years since these cars have been "stock cars" anyway? I say let's get some factory built cars back out there!

I have watched some old footage and WOW was it some exciting racing. You don't have to go 250mph to have a superior race series.

Look at all the production class racing that is so popular in Europe and a lot of those are even run on city streets.. how cool is that?

Thats what I want to see more of. I want to see a Pontiac GTO and a Lexus IS going door to door thru a corner while I am standing on a street corner. Now thats racing.

Racing isn't just for the drivers but it's also a spectator sport. While it is easy to shoot cars going in circles it makes for much more interesting racing when it is on your street.

[larryziegler]

Originally Posted by Fowvay

I have watched some old footage and WOW was it some exciting racing. You don't have to go 250mph to have a superior race series.

Look at all the production class racing that is so popular in Europe and a lot of those are even run on city streets.. how cool is that?

Thats what I want to see more of. I want to see a Pontiac GTO and a Lexus IS going door to door thru a corner while I am standing on a street corner. Now thats racing.

Racing isn't just for the drivers but it's also a spectator sport. While it is easy to shoot cars going in circles it makes for much more interesting racing when it is on your street.

NASCAR does have its 2 road course events, Sonoma Sears Point and Watkins Glen, but I get the gist of your comment. You'd like watching the American Le Man series http://www.americanlemans.com/home/index.aspx where they have a sedan class, with BMW's, Minis, Lexus, Honda/Acuras, etc. racing on road coarses around the country. I always liked watching the old IMSA series myself.

[TechnoTrix'd]

Cool, we got a little action over here in the Autosports area... A little "drama" now and again can be a good thing...

Yes, I do agree with the general consensus that two of the "big three" are in dire straights, and the one that is not already is a full fledged euro-company. From the car badging aspect, NASCAR changed a long time ago (i mean, a Taurus??? come-on...).

I was really trying to convey more from a fan perspective than the manufacture aspect. With the introduction of Toyota (and yes, Larry is correct that they have been in the Craftsman truck series for a few years now) into both the Bush and Cup racing series, they will attract a "different" demographic than say a Chevy or Ford. Specifically I am talking about a more international fan base, not neccessarily a large influx of new U.S. based fans.

And, some of your "old time" NASCAR fans were already starting to cry foul with the changes in points and the overtaking of the sport by 3 large team owners. The small independent driver/owner are all but wiped out. So, what NASCAR is today, is not what NASCAR really was in 1975, and will not be what NASCAR is tomorrow.

And that, quiet truthfully, is a shame. NASCAR was a very unique, niche sport that has become over the years, the number one fan base sport within the U.S. It "was" a no pretense, tee shirt optional sport that had fierce competition, died-in-the-wool fans, and true comrade among its drivers.

There were no "love-in's", but each driver respected the other, and any outsider better duck if they said something bad about one of them. Also, it was not a sport for everybody, and it did not try to be. It was what it was, and if you didn't care for it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I think that my "dramatics" come from watching what has happened to F1, Cart and the IRL leagues over the same number of decades. F1 is a sport of kings, for kings. It is the most incredible driving on the face of the planet, but I cannot make any connection to the manufactures or drivers, because they are so "corporate". Cart and IRL exist because of a power struggle for control of open wheel racing in the U.S. Neither one is better for it.

NASCAR not only survived these same years, but has flourished. With this announcement on Monday, they have put into motion events that will move NASCAR away from its root even further, and that is the shame of it all.

As we have seen the past few years, any driver that dares speak outside of the company line, is hit hard with point reductions and $$$ fines. The NASCAR of today is becoming just like Football, Baseball, Hockey, etc.... The sound clips are all pre-loaded, just insert a different player and hit play..

So, in closing (thought this would go on forever, didn't you..) it is not so much about bringing in a new car line, but a changing of philosophy and target demographics for a relatively uncomplicated sport. I saw this happen to the NFL over the past 15 years, and now it has started with another "common man" sport.

Just sad, that's all........TechnoTrix'd...

[TechnoTrix'd]

Originally Posted by Fowvay

I have watched some old footage and WOW was it some exciting racing. You don't have to go 250mph to have a superior race series.

Look at all the production class racing that is so popular in Europe and a lot of those are even run on city streets.. how cool is that?

Thats what I want to see more of. I want to see a Pontiac GTO and a Lexus IS going door to door thru a corner while I am standing on a street corner. Now thats racing.

Racing isn't just for the drivers but it's also a spectator sport. While it is easy to shoot cars going in circles it makes for much more interesting racing when it is on your street.

From a true "racing" perspective, I agree Tom. Road Courses and the Metro based open-wheel events are very entertaining to watch. Especially in person.

Only comparison is that does anyone really know the drivers?? That is one of those intangibles that NASCAR had, was the personalities. Richard Petty couldn't stay in the top ten his last few years, but the fan's begged him to keep driving. Not because he was winning, but because he was Richard Petty. He was a larger than life personality.

That is what is being replaced in NASCAR. The young guns are very good drivers, but they all look and talk and walk the same way. Their are no longer the "real men" Earnhearts vs. the "pretty boy" Gordan's. I mean, Tony Stewart was a shadow of his former self during last years run for the Cup. And the one or two times he did try to assert a little muscle on the track, NASCAR slapped him down quick.

Rubbing is racing folks, there is contact in every sport, and racing is not excluded. If you don’t like the fire, then go get a job selling insurance or something..

I mean, without a program, I can’t tell half of the newer drivers apart. And, if you take the personalities out of the sport, how much "turn left, accelerate, brake, turn left, accelerate" are ya gonna watch???

TechnoTrix'd.....

[PhoenixRising]

Truth is, I like to watch for the crash. I mean, I'll be honest. The crash sells it to me. Yes, I don't want anyone to get hurt...but you got to admit. When they walk away...makes you whistle and say, 'man, how did he survive that?'...

Maybe I was too honest there...

[TechnoTrix'd]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

Truth is, I like to watch for the crash. I mean, I'll be honest. The crash sells it to me. Yes, I don't want anyone to get hurt...but you got to admit. When they walk away...makes you whistle and say, 'man, how did he survive that?'...

Maybe I was too honest there...

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark... Actually, this is really one aspect that attracts the "fringe" fan. The high-speed carnage is something that is hard to not watch, over and over again. Something about our psychic that gravitates us to these images.

ESPN has become a very big company by highlighting this aspect of sports for over twenty five years. Watch sports center and you will see some of the most painful hits in football/hockey, crashes in racing, and similar types of clips from other sports.

In Philly, our radio broadcasting crew for the Eagles have the "Matt Slapp Splat of the day" for each game. It is a promo for a local car dealer that highlights the best "hit" on the field that day.

TechnoTrix'd...

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by TechnoTrix'd

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark... Actually, this is really one aspect that attracts the "fringe" fan. The high-speed carnage is something that is hard to not watch, over and over again. Something about our psychic that gravitates us to these images.

ESPN has become a very big company by highlighting this aspect of sports for over twenty five years. Watch sports center and you will see some of the most painful hits in football/hockey, crashes in racing, and similar types of clips from other sports.

In Philly, our radio broadcasting crew for the Eagles have the "Matt Slapp Splat of the day" for each game. It is a promo for a local car dealer that highlights the best "hit" on the field that day.

TechnoTrix'd...

I guess, you know I like the cars and all...but the truth is, man. A crash is what a lot of fans look forwarded to.

[Smileybug]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

I guess, you know I like the cars and all...but the truth is, man. A crash is what a lot of fans look forwarded to.

I'm a huge fan of NASCAR but I do have to agree. The crashes do make for exciting racing, especially in a time where the competitiveness of the points championship is so bland. Thats more of why I dont agree with the way they are going. I like the diversification of the sport and all and very much support it. But their choice of how to handle the points race makes it so much more unexciting and unenjoyable for me and I feel that it makes it less competitive in the end. Now, back to the crash aspect. They are definately a key part in excitement anymore. Now, I really dont want anyone to get hurt, not even those I'm not a fan of. Hell, I hated Dale Earnhardt and I cried when he was killed. Its never a good scenario, no matter how severe an injury but with the safetey measures taken both in the cars themselves and the new safer barrier walls, its amazing the hits these cars can take and have the driver still be unharmed. And I think that helps the excitement as well...when there are fewer injuries, you are able to enjoy that aspect even more.
I'm also kinda partial to the sport. I've grown up around it. My dad raced local tracks for a few years before I was born and my parents met because of that and my parents were NASCAR fans. Haven't had much of a choice when it came to my liking of the sport :P

[iScott]

NASCAR needs to become more international. Toyota will do that. They need to be more diverse. People outside of NASCAR look at it as a joke. Just a bunch of good ole' boys going in circles. It is so much more than that. And I hope NASCAR realizes that people need to see what beneath the surface or else they'll always be considered taboo in the auto sports world.

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by UFC_Champ_Scott

NASCAR needs to become more international. Toyota will do that. They need to be more diverse. People outside of NASCAR look at it as a joke. Just a bunch of good ole' boys going in circles.

Agreed.

Is there a NASCAR race, where they don't drive in simple circles?

[iScott]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

Is there a NASCAR race, where they don't drive in simple circles?

Sure is. Unfortunatly, out of the 36 races, there are only 2 road coarses. I'd really like to see that change.