DSG Transmission?

[Maggadog]

Exactly how is a 6 speed DSG tranny different from an automatic tranny? Please excuse my stupidity.:confused:

[bugasm99]

The DSG transmission actually has two rows of gears with two seperate clutches. 1 shaft having gears 1-3-5 and the other having 2-4-6. When you engage the car it drops into 1st gear and engages that clutch. At the same time it "pre spools" the other shaft at the matching rpm's. When you shift, it releases the clutch on shaft 1 and engages the clutch on shaft 2. It then prepares to engage in 3rd gear on the now released shaft and spools that to match.

So basically it jumps from shaft to shaft for much quicker shifts, rather then disengaging, moving, and then engaging.

[Pelican18TQA4]

"Regular" automatic = planetary gearset and torque converter.

DSG = manual transmission with electronic/hydraulic gear selection and clutch actuation.

[Grover]

Try reading this:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission.htm

[Maggadog]

"Currently, production automobiles equipped with DCTs are available only in Europe. These include the Volkswagen Beetle, Golf, Touran, and Jetta as well as the Audi TT and A3; the Skoda Octavia; and the Seat Altea, Toledo and Leon."

It was this article and the above quote that made me want to know more about the DSG tranny. In another thread on this forum, someone said that this DSG tranny is currently in the Beetle, at least that's what I understood.

[bugasm99]

it is in the beetle. It is also in the Audi's and the new GTi's and Jetta's

[slpopp]

it is in the beetle. It is also in the Audi's and the new GTi's and Jetta's


Is the DSG tranny in the New Beetle still only available with the TDI engine? Or have they started putting it in the gassers as well. I know some of the other VW models have the DSG tranny available with the gas engines, but I think you need to buy a diesel to get it in the New Beetle.

[Pelican18TQA4]

Correct, the DSG is only available in the New Beetle if you elect for the TDI engine. Curiously, the New Beetle TDI is the only MkIV car available with the DSG transmission in the U.S. (the TT 3.2 doesn't count IMO).

[dunno513]

The only thing that would make the DSG better is steering wheel paddles. Well, and maybe an extra gear for the TDI since first is all but a joke:D

[Pelican18TQA4]

1st gear is quite short, as are 2nd and 3rd, but that makes for what seems like fast acceleration. Ideally, I'd like to see 4th be closer to 3rd and then move 5th closer to 4th and make 6th a little taller for higher highway MPG without sacrificing acceleration. But overall, no complaints about the gearing. Although, when cruising at illegal speeds, it would be nice to have a 7th gear ;)

[Whitacre]

Illegal speeds? Who does that? (This guy!)

I love the tranny. Its the greatest thing about my car. Well, sorta the greatest thing. It is just so smooth. Now when i ride in other cars the "shift shock" is soooo noticeable. Its definately a fun atx to mess around with...

[bockegg]

The DSG transmission actually has two rows of gears with two seperate clutches. 1 shaft having gears 1-3-5 and the other having 2-4-6. When you engage the car it drops into 1st gear and engages that clutch. At the same time it "pre spools" the other shaft at the matching rpm's. When you shift, it releases the clutch on shaft 1 and engages the clutch on shaft 2. It then prepares to engage in 3rd gear on the now released shaft and spools that to match.

So basically it jumps from shaft to shaft for much quicker shifts, rather then disengaging, moving, and then engaging.
Hello and great info. I've read up on the DSG and I don't understand why they put that tranny in?
I have a 2003 NB convertible with 6 speed Tiptronic automatic and a 2006 NB TDI with 6 speed Tiptronic DSG automatic and I don't see, hear or feel any advantage to the DSG?
Mike

[Grover]

The DSG is supposedly more economical than a regular automatic like your '03 has. The DSG is much more like a standard tranny than an automatic too. And then of course there is the "way cool" factor :lol:

[dunno513]

Hello and great info. I've read up on the DSG and I don't understand why they put that tranny in?
I have a 2003 NB convertible with 6 speed Tiptronic automatic and a 2006 NB TDI with 6 speed Tiptronic DSG automatic and I don't see, hear or feel any advantage to the DSG?
Mike

It's all about how power goes from the engine to the wheels. Regular autos use energy transfer thru a fluid medium aka torque converter. This = energy loss.

DSG removes that factor, plus a whole lot of weight (It's still heftier than a manual tho.) and increases efficiency back to the point of the manual models.

True, a DSG in optimal conditions will outperform a manual for efficiency... (computer vs human shifting) BUT, no one is going to drive a DSG like that and therefore, the lighter manual on average will still win.

The DSG will actually perform a little quirky as compared to the smooth shifting of a torque converter auto. My wife said it was like driving with someone who didn't quite know how to drive a stick :p Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade a DSG after having one for a reg auto EVER!.

I'm just amazed that VW puts these things in their cars with little or no price premium to the consumer. Maybe they cost less to make, but the novelty of them should still demand a better price in a perfect world. I'm guessing they do it so their TDI's both manual and Auto make the grade in the EPA wars. So far they seem to be doing ok...

[bockegg]

The DSG is supposedly more economical than a regular automatic like your '03 has. The DSG is much more like a standard tranny than an automatic too. And then of course there is the "way cool" factor :lol:
That's true. I love the little boost you get when you let off the brake. It's the same as having a stick when you let out the clutch in 1st gear.
Very nice. And the mileage is amazing!

[bockegg]

It's all about how power goes from the engine to the wheels. Regular autos use energy transfer thru a fluid medium aka torque converter. This = energy loss.

DSG removes that factor, plus a whole lot of weight (It's still heftier than a manual tho.) and increases efficiency back to the point of the manual models.

True, a DSG in optimal conditions will outperform a manual for efficiency... (computer vs human shifting) BUT, no one is going to drive a DSG like that and therefore, the lighter manual on average will still win.

The DSG will actually perform a little quirky as compared to the smooth shifting of a torque converter auto. My wife said it was like driving with someone who didn't quite know how to drive a stick :p Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade a DSG after having one for a reg auto EVER!.

I'm just amazed that VW puts these things in their cars with little or no price premium to the consumer. Maybe they cost less to make, but the novelty of them should still demand a better price in a perfect world. I'm guessing they do it so their TDI's both manual and Auto make the grade in the EPA wars. So far they seem to be doing ok...
Your wife is right. It takes some time to get used to driving it in the city. This tranny is not as comfortable for stop and go driving, however, the fuel economy is sweet!!

[NYBugman]

For anyone who has not driven a DSG-equipped car, do so as soon as possible.

A friend of mine has a new MkV GTI with DSG and I have to say that the DSG is just about perfect. There is no interruption in power at all. The shifts are so smooth that you think something is wrong. I personally love the paddles, as it lets you keep both hands on the wheel while you shift. That, for me, makes is a very desierable car to not just drive on the street, but on a track. Full auto mode is silky smooth and it shifts before you even know it.

I'll hold off on the rest of my MkV GTI DSG comments as they are not relevant to this topic. Suffice to say that with software and exhaust this car is VERY fast. And it turns really well, also;)

[Breez]

Great thread, lots of information and personal experiences... I am really enjoying this ;)

[bockegg]

For anyone who has not driven a DSG-equipped car, do so as soon as possible.

A friend of mine has a new MkV GTI with DSG and I have to say that the DSG is just about perfect. There is no interruption in power at all. The shifts are so smooth that you think something is wrong. I personally love the paddles, as it lets you keep both hands on the wheel while you shift. That, for me, makes is a very desierable car to not just drive on the street, but on a track. Full auto mode is silky smooth and it shifts before you even know it.

I'll hold off on the rest of my MkV GTI DSG comments as they are not relevant to this topic. Suffice to say that with software and exhaust this car is VERY fast. And it turns really well, also;)
My DSG feels "goofy" around the 1st and 2nd gear, like there is an unexperienced driver using a stick. And that's with the car in drive. Also, downshifting when decending steep hills provides RPM's but doesn't seem to hold back like the '03 tranny. Besides the mileage I believe that the '03 tranny is more predictible and it seems to be just as smooth.

[Whitacre]

Well to those more in-tune with their vehicles i can assure you they notice a difference. To each his own i suppose but really the DSG is far superior to a regular automatic by far...especially the ones from 03. Isnt that before they moved to the japanese built ones which were much smoother than the 98-03.5? I could be wrong on the date but nonetheless the DSG owns and i just love driving in my car because of it. Sure its a little more "goofy" for lack of a better word in stop and go traffic, but you can get used to it and once you do that it isnt a big deal at all. Besides TDI's are made for the highway :)

[bockegg]

Well to those more in-tune with their vehicles i can assure you they notice a difference. To each his own i suppose but really the DSG is far superior to a regular automatic by far...especially the ones from 03. Isnt that before they moved to the japanese built ones which were much smoother than the 98-03.5? I could be wrong on the date but nonetheless the DSG owns and i just love driving in my car because of it. Sure its a little more "goofy" for lack of a better word in stop and go traffic, but you can get used to it and once you do that it isnt a big deal at all. Besides TDI's are made for the highway :)
Don't get me wrong I do love "goofy." Unfortunately, most of my driving is city. The DSG is superior on the highway but it doesn't like city driving. The '03 does stop and go well.

My '03 NBC tranny is from Japan. It's a 6 speed tiptronic also, just like the DSG. It even has the same shift handle. It is all around smooth as butter! But the mileage is not so great, even in the 2.0 L 4 cyl.

The TDI with DSG is my calling though!