NBNG - New Beetle Next Generation will be built!

[pehero]

Hi, Volks.

These are really good news:
>>> Sorry, only german language! (http://www.beetle-forum.de/index.php?showtopic=61869) ...


Happy Motoring,

Per-Hendrik.

[ASurroca]

Is this article in the latest issue (http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/92115) of Auto Motor Und Sport? I couldn't find the article on their website (yet). It looks like they've got some interesting Volkswagen stuff this month. For example, they appear to be referring to a Concept R coupe as the Scirocco, for example.

I couldn't make out exactly what it said about the next-gen New Beetle, but I think it said something about there still being a market for the car, enough to warrant making a next-generation model.

How reputable is AMS, by the way. Do they usually talk rumors, or facts?

[Steinola]

I couldn't find the article on Auto Motor Und Sport either. So it's hard to tell what the article might actually say... but I would have to think that anything anybody talks about right now is purely speculation and rumor. As we know... even if VW comes out and says "we're going to build it", it's anybody's guess whether they actually will (witness the MicroBus, Concept R, etc).

But it is interesting news... particularly... well... my German is a little rusty... but it looks like they're talking about making the NBNG a hybrid?? Am I reading that right?

[Porkchop]

But it is interesting news... particularly... well... my German is a little rusty... but it looks like they're talking about making the NBNG a hybrid?? Am I reading that right?

Finally a bandwagon that at least has positive benefits... for foreign energy dependence and the environment.

If the hybrid fad gets as popular as the SUV fad was a few years ago, it could really have a significant (positive) impact.

[Atomic Glee]

Here is my very poor computer translation of the post at the German forum:

Hello, Allerseits.

After in the autocatalog already for the first time world-wide thus
from "more officially" page upon a successor speculated, the current Autoengine and sport this hope:

-----
The combination of burn and electric motor takes time here to country still. VOLKSWAGEN sets thereby in co-operation with AUDI and Porsche on one fullhybrid, which is offered for the first time 2007 in the Jetta for the USA, later the Touareg follows. Mild-hybrid with pure asynchronous operation function to the Spritsparen in the city it will not give a in such a way specified after the present status.

Probably however a successor for the Beetle. Despite the sales calm air occurred meanwhile one holds still much more to the Retroauto - and with the new edition at the Ourfit of the original will possibly orient itself. The laborious modernization of the monument is considered afterwards as error. If beetles, then correctly. Here a Design project group with high pressure operates on suggestions.

Also the open version is again animated. Model is the study Ragster shown for the first time in Detroit 2005, which works with shortened A-column optically like a mixture from Coupe and Cabrio, but has a faltschiebedach, which disappears. The roof setting in, side parts would firmly install basically in a contrasting color are painted.

From what I can decipher, it sounds like this theorized "New New Beetle" would be more similar to the original aircooled car than the current one, from reading that middle paragraph. "The laborious modernization of the monument is considered afterwards as error. If beetles, then correctly."

Which I am all for.

[pdoel]

Weren't there rumors a year or two ago, that if they did decide to do a next gen New Beetle, it "might" be based off the polo or lupo platform, rather than the MKV Golf/Jetta platform?

That'd be kinda cool. I think it could definitely be a hit. Maybe not with the current New Beetle crowd. Even the subtle changes on the 2006 threw some for a loop.

Heh heh.

[Atomic Glee]

Weren't there rumors a year or two ago, that if they did decide to do a next gen New Beetle, it "might" be based off the polo or lupo platform, rather than the MKV Golf/Jetta platform?

That'd be kinda cool. I think it could definitely be a hit. Maybe not with the current New Beetle crowd. Even the subtle changes on the 2006 threw some for a loop.

Heh heh.

Hehehe, no kidding.

Auto Motor und Sport is a quite respected car mag in Germany, along with AutoBild. That gives this story a little more weight.

Then, there was Len Hunt's webcast on the VW Alpha Drivers network. He stated that Volkswagen was developing a new entry-level car below the Golf and Jetta (as especially with the Mark V the car was getting bigger and farther away from "entry level") for the US, and stated several times that it was part of a desire to get VW back to its roots. It makes you wonder...

And a Polo-sized Beetle would not be without precedent. The Concept One, after all, rode the Polo chassis.

[Steinola]

Then, there was Len Hunt's webcast on the VW Alpha Drivers network. He stated that Volkswagen was developing a new entry-level car below the Golf and Jetta (as especially with the Mark V the car was getting bigger and farther away from "entry level") for the US, and stated several times that it was part of a desire to get VW back to its roots. It makes you wonder...

Translation: "Golly... not as many people wanted to buy a $70,000 VW as we thought" ;)

Getting VW "back to it's roots" sounds like a great idea to me. Move the Phaeton and Touareg to Audi...and let VW get back to building people's cars!


And a Polo-sized Beetle would not be without precedent. The Concept One, after all, rode the Polo chassis.

And here is where my knowledge fails me. Wasn't "Polo" just the European name for the Golf? I had thought they were on the same platform. How much bigger is the Golf?

[Atomic Glee]

And here is where my knowledge fails me. Wasn't "Polo" just the European name for the Golf? I had thought they were on the same platform. How much bigger is the Golf?

Nope, the Polo is one class below the Golf. The Golf has always been fairly noticeably larger than the Polo of the comparable generation.

The lineup goes Lupo (well, now Fox), Polo, Golf, from smallest to largest.

The Golf has always been called the Golf in Europe. It only ever went by another name here in the US, in the first generation, when it was the Rabbit. After that, it's been Golf in both places.

Polo site: http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/brand_portal/de30/models/polo.html

The Concept One was Polo-based, and was quite a bit smaller than the production New Beetle. Apparently, Ferdinand Piech made the decision to move the production NB to the Golf platform.

[TommyK8]

Although I am a VW loyalist (I just ordered a 2006 NB TDI)and I hate to be critical of Volkswagen, I cannot usually make sense of their decisions regarding the product line in North America.

Apparently, VW did an analysis and determined that there was no market for the Lupo or Polo in North America. At the same time, they brought to the Phaeton to our shores. I saw one while browsing the lot on a Sunday at my local dealer. I almost collapsed when I saw the sticker price was $82,000! Did the same analyis determine that there was a market for the Phaeton at this price?

I think that if Volkswagen brings in a fuel efficient entry-level car like the Polo, it will sell very well here in the U.S. The TDI version of the Lupo that was sold in Europe got incredible fuel economy of upwards of 70 mpg.

There continues to be a market, in my opinion, for the New Beetle. The one change I would make is to somehow increase fuel economy. When buying a car of this size, many folks would like to see a miles per gallon figure that competes with Corolla and Civic, rather than is about the same as Altima, Camry and Accord.

Just my opinion. Nobody from Volkswagen asked me. They still have a very decent sized population of loyalists and enthusiasts in this country, and I think they should call upon us for help from time to time.

[Concept1]

From what I can decipher, it sounds like this theorized "New New Beetle" would be more similar to the original aircooled car than the current one, from reading that middle paragraph. "The laborious modernization of the monument is considered afterwards as error. If beetles, then correctly."

I'm not sure how you got that. It sounds like Yoda on acid. I don't know if I could deal with a smaller Beetle. It's already pushing it in terms of rear legroom. I think the current design is great but needs to move to the Mk V platform. I like the 2006 revision but they could have done more, especially to the interior. The el cheapo door panels need to go for example.

[Concept1]

What are they saying about a hybrid Jetta for the 2007 model year? First I've heard of it.

[Atomic Glee]

I'm not sure how you got that. It sounds like Yoda on acid. I don't know if I could deal with a smaller Beetle. It's already pushing it in terms of rear legroom. I think the current design is great but needs to move to the Mk V platform. I like the 2006 revision but they could have done more, especially to the interior. The el cheapo door panels need to go for example.

Rear legroom is fine for a small car, IMHO - it's the headroom that's lacking. That could be solved by a less radical sweep of the rear roofline, as in the original Beetle.

I got that from kinda deciphering what they wrote - about "laborious modernization" and "if beetles, then correctly." The original Beetle was a simple, inexpensive, entry-level car for the masses, the quintessential "people's car." The New Beetle is a moderately-to-high priced (for its class, of course) "lifestyle vehicle" that's far from the simplest car VW makes. In fact, in Mark IV world, the Golf is cheaper than the NB (who knows how the US-spec Mark V Golf will be positioned). The NB shares little of the same spirit and purpose that the original had. The closest the car came was the '98 NB with no options.

The Mark V chassis is superb, but IMHO a Mark V-based NB would be getting "too big for its britches," so to speak. I'd far rather see the NB shrink to, say, Polo-sized, move down in price, and do its part to fill out VW's bottom range as a simple, relatively inexpensive "people's car." I had the opportunity to get some seat time in a Polo, and I fit perfectly well inside - and I'm 6'3" and pudgy. I see no reason why I wouldn't be just as comfy in a Polo-sized NB.

Just a nice, simple Beetle. No need for sporty turbocharged models and everything, but a true successor to the spirit of the old Bug. Lighter, nimbler, with simplified options and engine lineups (diesel hybrid, anyone? Don't forget, the Concept One was designed as a testbed for diesel, hybrid, and electric powertrains), getting back to its roots, which is something VW as a whole should be doing IMHO.

[Atomic Glee]

What are they saying about a hybrid Jetta for the 2007 model year? First I've heard of it.

VW announced a little while back that they were working on a Jetta hybrid.

[Fowvay]

Die Kombination von Verbrennungs- und Elektromotor lässt hier zu Lande noch auf sich warten. VW setzt dabei in Kooperation mit Audi und Porsche auf einen Vollhybrid, der erstmals 2007 im Jetta für die USA angeboten wird, später folgt der Touareg. Einen so genannten Mild-Hybrid mit reiner Start-Stopp-Funktion zum Spritsparen in der Stadt wird es nach dem derzeitigen Stand nicht geben.


Alas we must wait a bit longer for the combination of a Gasoline and Electric motor. VW in cooperation with Audi and Porsche are working on a Hybrid that will first appear in the 2007 Jetta (for the US market only), later on it will also be used in the Touareg. This will be a mild hybrid that uses the stop start Function to increase fuel economy in the city.

Thats it in a nutshell. :D

[Fowvay]

There will probably be a succseeor to the Beetle. Despite laggin sales the Retro fad is still poplular. Blah blah blah gobbly gook. The labor instensive intensive modernization of the original is considered an error. The design group takes suggestions and has recieved a lot of pressure to design a new one.

Errr thats the best I could do with that paragraph... sorry :(

[Atomic Glee]

There will probably be a succseeor to the Beetle. Despite laggin sales the Retro fad is still poplular. Blah blah blah gobbly gook. The labor instensive intensive modernization of the original is considered an error. The design group takes suggestions and has recieved a lot of pressure to design a new one.

Errr thats the best I could do with that paragraph... sorry :(
A bit more coherent - thanks, Tom.

A bit different from my interpretation. Still, when you think about the statements that they're working on a new entry-level car for the US...still a possibility, I guess.

[Concept1]

Just a nice, simple Beetle. No need for sporty turbocharged models and everything, but a true successor to the spirit of the old Bug. Lighter, nimbler, with simplified options and engine lineups (diesel hybrid, anyone? Don't forget, the Concept One was designed as a testbed for diesel, hybrid, and electric powertrains), getting back to its roots, which is something VW as a whole should be doing IMHO.

Well, I certainly don't mind all that but I'd still like a full range of options. The could always have a value edition as standard but if someone wants to pay extra for a turbo with xenon headlights why not? I guess I like sleepers.

[Concept1]

There will probably be a succseeor to the Beetle. Despite laggin sales the Retro fad is still poplular. Blah blah blah gobbly gook. The labor instensive intensive modernization of the original is considered an error. The design group takes suggestions and has recieved a lot of pressure to design a new one.

That almost sounds like they are talking about the Ragster. Len Hunt said in the webcast they might consider building it with customer input.

[Concept1]

VW announced a little while back that they were working on a Jetta hybrid.

Really? The only thing I heard was Audi and Porsche teaming up on hybrid technology for SUVs like the Audi Q7 which is somewhat pointless. A hybrid Jetta would make more sense. A hybrid New Beetle would be even better.

[Atomic Glee]

I had a 2002 1.8T Sport (not Turbo S), and while it was fun to drive and quite quick, I dunno...I never really got into it. With the 1.8T and the Recaros and leather and all, it just seemed kind of...un-Beetley. I never loved it and got into it the way I did with my '98 and my '04.

Just my thing, perhaps.

[Porkchop]

The one change I would make is to somehow increase fuel economy. When buying a car of this size, many folks would like to see a miles per gallon figure that competes with Corolla and Civic, rather than is about the same as Altima, Camry and Accord.

AMEN!

[Beetlemania]

If the original concept behind this thread sticks, I'd be really excited. If they did indeed release a smaller air-cooled version, I think I could see getting one. And were they to do that, I wonder if they'd just go back to the Beetle moniker, now that there's not a car built by that name any more. I'd been planning on buying a classic Beetle for quite some time. If these were available, I don't know for sure what my plan would be.

[Atomic Glee]

If the original concept behind this thread sticks, I'd be really excited. If they did indeed release a smaller air-cooled version, I think I could see getting one. And were they to do that, I wonder if they'd just go back to the Beetle moniker, now that there's not a car built by that name any more. I'd been planning on buying a classic Beetle for quite some time. If these were available, I don't know for sure what my plan would be.
Well, before the Rumor Farm gets too fertile, I should say that any new New Beetle, even if smaller, simpler, and more true to the spirit of the original, almost certainly won't be aircooled, or rear engined, or anything like that. I don't think VW would take *that* big of a risk.

The car I'm envisioning would be Polo-sized (let's just say it's Polo-based, in fact), still front-engined and water-cooled. Smaller than the NB, and I'd say less radically stylized to help give it more practical interior and cargo space. Less dramatic swoop to the rear, a longer hood with windshield farther back, that sort of thing. Interior would be simple, and a little funkier, with better materials (I'm thinking Mini-esque and less hard plastic). Maybe take some cues from the Dune and use more tough, washable materials? I'd see it occupying the low end of VW's US range, rather than be lost between the Golf and Jetta as it is now.

I dunno, maybe I'm just nuts. I can see it working, though.

[ASurroca]

Okay, let's see...

1. Len Hunt has explained that the reason VAG never brought the Polo to the US, despite the enthusiast clamoring, was because they've market-tested it and determined that it's just not right for the US. Instead, they are working on a small-car platform exclusively for the US.

2. AMS' is talking about a back-to-its-roots redesign of the New Beetle.

3. In the Alpha Driver webcast, Hunt said that Volkswagen is hedging its bets with three types of fuel-efficient engines: The twin-charged gas engines, high(er)-tech diesel engines, and hybrid engines. Apparently, the hybrid powertrain is due in MY2007, first on the Jetta and the Touareg. This sounds like a feasable time-frame because Volkswagen has proven with the Eos that they are capable of bringing a vehicle to market within 18 months.

Add 1+2+3, and you get a smaller, lighter, simpler (and let's not forget, cheaper) New Beetle with an optional hybrid powertrain.

[Fowvay]

Well if they had made the windshield a bit more upright, made the dash shallower they could have brought the seats forward some in the front and been able to raise the seats in the back a bit higher... then having a not so severe roof line and tada tons more head room and legroom.. give it a cam back and wait.. then it would be a Golf... they allready build those, don't they?

[Concept1]

Is there a transcript of the Alpha Drivers webcast available?

[Steinola]

... then having a not so severe roof line and tada tons more head room and legroom.. give it a cam back and wait.. then it would be a Golf... they allready build those, don't they?

LOL! You really caught on to how all this works, haven't you Fowvay ;)

[Atomic Glee]

Well if they had made the windshield a bit more upright, made the dash shallower they could have brought the seats forward some in the front and been able to raise the seats in the back a bit higher... then having a not so severe roof line and tada tons more head room and legroom.. give it a cam back and wait.. then it would be a Golf... they allready build those, don't they?
hehehehe...personally, I think there's plenty of room between the NB's head-shearing roofline and a Golf's. Like, say, the old Beetle's. :)

[Concept1]

Hmmm, the roofline on these old Beetles reminds me of the roof on the Ragster.

[ASurroca]

Let's not forget Tom, the roofline you described is actually a lot closer to the aircooled Beetle. :)

[BUGSTUFF]

How about bringing over the VW Caddy, especially a diesel version? It's a platform that VW already has and it could compete with the Scion xb, the PT Cruiser, Chevy's HHR and possibly the Honda Element. Customizing options would be almost endless.

I'd give it some serious consideration......


Just my .02 cents, of course......:D

[Atomic Glee]

How about bringing over the VW Caddy, especially a diesel version? It's a platform that VW already has and it could compete with the Scion xb, the PT Cruiser, Chevy's HHR and possibly the Honda Element. Customizing options would be almost endless.

I'd give it some serious consideration......


Just my .02 cents, of course......:D
Jamie from VWVortex has said that Volkswagen was looking at bringing the Caddy over for just such a purpose. The recent "Caddy Life" show car was a step in this direction, to see if they could make a "funky" cool little wagon thingy out of what is essentially a cargo van. It was really cool - I'd drive it!

[ASurroca]

I think the Caddy would have to be given at a minimum the Jetta/Passat facelift treatment before being a viable vehicle for the US market. I think the sharper-looking Golf Plus would be a direct hit against the new Mazda5 MPV and might have a better cahnce of surviving in the US market.

http://vwvortex.com/gallery/generated//Volkswagen/Caddy%20(EU)/Caddy%20Life%20Concept/001__scaled_600.jpg
http://vwvortex.com/gallery/generated//Volkswagen/Golf%20-%20GTI%20-%20Rabbit/Golf%20V/Golf%20Plus/005__scaled_600.jpg

One thing's for sure, assuming that Volkswagen ends up co-developing Chrysler's next minivan platform and bringing a full-blown minivan to the US, and that they offer some form of MPV a la Caddy Life, this would mean that the next-generation New Beetle could sacrifice utility for looks and performance the way the MINI Cooper has, since there would be several alternatives for utility-minded people.

[Atomic Glee]

I think the Caddy would have to be given at a minimum the Jetta/Passat facelift treatment before being a viable vehicle for the US market. I think the sharper-looking Golf Plus would be a direct hit against the new Mazda5 MPV and might have a better cahnce of surviving in the US market.

http://vwvortex.com/gallery/generated//Volkswagen/Caddy%20(EU)/Caddy%20Life%20Concept/001__scaled_600.jpg
http://vwvortex.com/gallery/generated//Volkswagen/Golf%20-%20GTI%20-%20Rabbit/Golf%20V/Golf%20Plus/005__scaled_600.jpg

One thing's for sure, assuming that Volkswagen ends up co-developing Chrysler's next minivan platform and bringing a full-blown minivan to the US, and that they offer some form of MPV a la Caddy Life, this would mean that the next-generation New Beetle could sacrifice utility for looks and performance the way the MINI Cooper has, since there would be several alternatives for utility-minded people.
Personally, I think the Caddy is better looking than the Golf Plus, but that's just me. :D

I must point out, though, that I don't think the Golf Plus could compete against the Mazda 5. It's quite a bit smaller, IIRC, and in fact barely bigger than the regular Golf. The vehicle that Volkswagen does have that would compete against the Mazda 5 is the Touran.

http://www.vwvortex.com/gallery/generated//Volkswagen/Touran/006__scaled_600.jpg

Volkswagen did have plans to bring the Touran to the US, apparently. That's why there is no Jetta V wagon - the Touran would have taken its place. VW dealers in the US balked, though, and said they wanted a Jetta V wagon, so now there is such a beast in design, and the Touran won't be coming here.

The Caddy was (at least for a time) being looked at quite seriously by VW as a potential US-market car. It's simple, cheap to build, and IMHO could have been a success if marketed and priced properly. I haven't heard anything about it since the Caddy Life, though, so VW may have dropped the idea.

To further confuse everything: believe it or not, the US was apparently supposed to get the Golf Plus, as well. VW's original plans were for the Golf Plus to replace the regular Golf completely in the US, except for the GTI, which would be the European model based on the regular Golf. For whatever reason (most likely cost), this plan was dropped. This is apparently part (not all) of the reason why the Golf is coming over so late.

[Atomic Glee]

OK, as a followup, apparently the Caddy Life-in-the-US potential is *not* dead yet. This is from Jamie, who runs VWVortex, and is fairly recent (and quite a bit after the concept car was shown):

Our best hopes for the future in regards to smaller entry level cars are the next generation Polo platform, the current Caddy Life and potentially the Fox for Canada.

So, bringing the Caddy Life to the US is still on the table. I thought it had been dropped. Interesting, considering Mr. Hunt's comments about working on a new entry level car for the US - I would now not be all that surprised to see the Caddy Life show up on our shores.

Likely? I dunno. They could certainly bring it over sooner than the *next*-gen Polo which is still a little ways off.

If you REALLY want to get in to the whole "reading too much into posts" thing, you could say it's interesting that Jamie said the next-gen Polo *platform,* not necessarily the next-gen *Polo.*

Whatever the case, I personally would buy a Caddy Life.

[Concept1]

I don't understand how the Caddy is considered an entry-level car though. It's not even a car. Maybe it's built on a car platform? Hard to tell. Very boxy. It reminds me of the Chevy Eurovan from the 1980's. Ugh. I can't see them selling many of them. Maybe if they gave it some of the Microbus stylings or better yet, just do a Microbus in some form. The Golf Plus/GTI combo sounds like an excellent idea to me. Lots of savings by using the same platform and sharing of parts. I think each would sell better than a regular Golf would.

[Atomic Glee]

I don't understand how the Caddy is considered an entry-level car though. It's not even a car. Maybe it's built on a car platform? Hard to tell. Very boxy. It reminds me of the Chevy Eurovan from the 1980's. Ugh. I can't see them selling many of them. Maybe if they gave it some of the Microbus stylings or better yet, just do a Microbus in some form. The Golf Plus/GTI combo sounds like an excellent idea to me. Lots of savings by using the same platform and sharing of parts. I think each would sell better than a regular Golf would.
Personally, I think the Caddy is really cool looking (ignore the ugly showcar graphics), but to each his own I suppose.

The Caddy is, in fact, a small car-based vehicle. It's based off a simplified Golf/Jetta V chassis. It's much cheaper to build than the Golf/Jetta V. From what Jamie at the 'tex has said, the Caddy may come over as part of a couple of entry-level vehicles for the US market, the other possibly being the next Polo. It's a neat vehicle - the interior is stuffed with storage bins, compartments along the ceiling, all sorts of things. Even has the option of third-row seating. VWVortex ran a poll asking if people would like to see the Caddy come to the US, and the results were something like 83% for, 16% against. Here's Jamie's article on the Caddy:

----------
Is there a Caddy in VWoA's Future?
by Jamie Vondruska

Anyone that has spent some time around our discussion forums has probably seen one of the raging debates that revolves around Volkswagen's recent march upward in the marketplace with the Phaeton and Touareg. Is Volkswagen abandoning the lower end of the market? Are the people running the company losing touch with the customers? What the hell are they doing?

As a long time car enthusiast who has some deeply psychotic magnetism towards VW products, I too have often wondered over the last few years where Volkswagen is headed. With former VW chairman Ferdinand Piech marching around making statements that VW is going to take on Mercedes Benz and move to become a "premium" brand, the whole automotive industry ****ed its head and watched intently to see what unfolded next.

I'm in the fortunate position where I often get to spend some time rubbing elbows with executives at different car companies, particularly those in power at Volkswagen. I've had some rather lengthy and interesting debates about the future of Volkswagen of America and where they are headed as a company. With Dr. Pischetrieder now at the helm in Germany, the old "premium car" mantra that Dr. Piech loved to throw at the press has largely disappeared and there is a renewed focus on injecting some "fun" into the brand, as opposed to more wood trim and rain sensing wipers - good stuff.

Talking further with the new head of Volkswagen of America Len Hunt and the people with whom he has surrounded himself leaves little doubt in my mind that there are some genuine enthusiasts at Volkswagen that haven't forgotten the spirit of the VW brand and what it means to a lot of people. There is a sense of excitement creeping into Volkswagen of America again as they are about to launch an all-new Jetta, all-new Passat, all-new GTI and GLI, facelifted New Beetle, upgrades to other current product and more - quite a lot of new and improved product to get the juices flowing.

Knowing that the dimensions of the new Golf V have grown quite a bit and the safe assumption that the all-new Passat will probably be bigger as well, Volkswagen, like Honda with their Civic and Accord, is faced with the need for a new entry-level product to fill the gap left by these larger, newer and potentially more expensive models. Volkswagen has two product lines sold abroad below the Golf lineup called the Polo and Lupo. The Polo is sold in hatchback and traditional sedan form and could fill an entry level product need.

One model that Volkswagen recently introduced over in Germany that hasn't gotten much press here is the Caddy. Built on the Golf V platform, the Caddy, like the Eurovan is a multi-purpose vehicle that could double as a slick, economical commercial vehicle and also as a cool and different family hauler or rugged lifestyle vehicle. Similar in some ways to Honda's Element in spirit, the Caddy could actually be a unique new vehicle that is cost effective, economical, highly practical, fun to drive and appeals to wide variety of people both young in age and young at heart.

The Caddy has so far had a fairly utilitarian appearance with grey plastic bumpers front and rear and some stunningly attractive steel wheels (yeah, right). Last week, Volkswagen showed a "concept" version of the Caddy Life at the IAA Commericial Truck Show in Frankfurt, Germany and man, what a difference some wheels and paint make to a vehicle... Flashy "pimp-my-ride" graphics treatment aside, the painted and cleaned up bumpers, alloy wheels and interior trim treatments have transformed the Caddy into something that is actually pretty cool looking.

Volkswagen could offer the Caddy in a variety of trim levels with a butt-load of cool accessories. A large rear sunroof for surfboards and other tall items, a tent add-on for quick campouts, bike racks both inside and out, lots of storage compartments, an on-board DVD entertainment system for the kids, a scrubbable and easy-to-clean interior and much, much more. Heck, I could even see a few of these making it to Waterfest with big wheels and lowered suspensions. They even race one in the UK's Volkswagen Racing Cup series - no joke.

Engines for our market could include the new forthcoming 2.5l inline-5 from the new Golf and Jetta but with a power boost to 175hp and near equal torque. A TDI offering should also be a mandatory requirement to make it a good economical choice. Seating can be configured for either two rows or three with removable seats when you want to haul larger items like a kayak. Basic trim levels include a decent amount of standard equipment, but go easy on the electronic gizmos that don't interest people in a more economical entry level product. For those that like the bells and whistles, though, Volkswagen could offer higher trim level versions with dual-zone climatronic, leatherette seating surfaces, DVD entertainment system and more. All-wheel-drive and a marginally raised suspension would also be good considerations for those that live in snowbelt areas or might do a little exploring off the beaten path. Pricing should start ideally around $14,750 for a basic version and top out around $22k fully loaded with all-wheel-drive.

[Concept1]

The Caddy is, in fact, a small car-based vehicle. It's based off a simplified Golf/Jetta V chassis. It's much cheaper to build than the Golf/Jetta V. From what Jamie at the 'tex has said, the Caddy may come over as part of a couple of entry-level vehicles for the US market, the other possibly being the next Polo. It's a neat vehicle - the interior is stuffed with storage bins, compartments along the ceiling, all sorts of things. Even has the option of third-row seating. VWVortex ran a poll asking if people would like to see the Caddy come to the US, and the results were something like 83% for, 16% against.[/B]

Well, from the description of it (especially the versatility) I guess my question would be...

Why not just build a Microbus on this platform? From what I understand, VW cancelled the Microbus project due to the high costs of a new platfrom to be built in Germany. Why not build it on this platform in Mexico instead? The Microbus concept needed some tweaking, especially the locomotive looking front, but I think it would sell a lot better than the Caddy.

[Steinola]

The Microbus concept needed some tweaking, especially the locomotive looking front, but I think it would sell a lot better than the Caddy.

I'm not so sure about that. The Caddy still looks somewhat "familiar". Even if the look of the Microbus was somewhat less "stylized" than the concept, it'd still be rather foreign to most US consumers.

As for why the Microbus couldn't just be built on a platform similar to the Caddy... I think that would be a mistake. I think in order for the Microbus to sell at all, it'd have to appeal to enthusiasts. The Caddy's platform just can't accomodate the power plant and suspension options that'd get the Microbus where it'd need to be, IMHO. That's the main reason that the Microbus platform would've had to have been so expensive to produce.

[Atomic Glee]

Well, from the description of it (especially the versatility) I guess my question would be...

Why not just build a Microbus on this platform? From what I understand, VW cancelled the Microbus project due to the high costs of a new platfrom to be built in Germany. Why not build it on this platform in Mexico instead? The Microbus concept needed some tweaking, especially the locomotive looking front, but I think it would sell a lot better than the Caddy.
The Microbus was not built on a new platform. It was supposed to be built on the T5 Multivan platform, the successor to the T4 Eurovan. Even then, using an existing platform and (between the time it was a concept car and the time it was cancelled) as many off-the-shelf components as possible, it was deemed to be still too expensive to work. Especially considering it was expected to be another "US-only" car, not too popular anywhere but the US.

The Caddy is being looked at, as I said, as part of a new inexpensive-car program for the US market. It's simple, cheap to build, and could be brought over to the US with relatively few modifications. Hence, it could be sold cheaply here - note Jamie's pricing speculation of a base price of $14,750 in the US. This would put it (along with, for example, the next-gen Polo should it come over) into a segment that VW has been ignoring for some time. It is sized similar to the Honda Element but offers a third-row option and would be cheaper. Cheap, practical, a bit weird looking but without looking like the head of a Japanese fighting robot like the Element, safe, economical, and cute.

If VW were to take the Caddy's chassis and make a new Bus out of it, they'd have to spend even more money on it. They'd need to design a whole new body and interior, probably modify a lot of the mechanics to fit into a Bus body, have to spend more on parts and spares, have to make more production line changes, etc. etc. etc. They'd spend more on R&D, engineering, design, and production, which would make the final product more expensive. That sub-$15,000 price would be gone. The US isn't getting the Touran for this reason - VW looked at it, and figured it would simply cost too much to sell here compared to the far simpler Caddy.

[Atomic Glee]

For the curious, here are some Caddy pics without the goofy showcar graphics:

[TommyK8]

Okay, let's see...

1. Len Hunt has explained that the reason VAG never brought the Polo to the US, despite the enthusiast clamoring, was because they've market-tested it and determined that it's just not right for the US. Instead, they are working on a small-car platform exclusively for the US.

2. AMS' is talking about a back-to-its-roots redesign of the New Beetle.

3. In the Alpha Driver webcast, Hunt said that Volkswagen is hedging its bets with three types of fuel-efficient engines: The twin-charged gas engines, high(er)-tech diesel engines, and hybrid engines. Apparently, the hybrid powertrain is due in MY2007, first on the Jetta and the Touareg. This sounds like a feasable time-frame because Volkswagen has proven with the Eos that they are capable of bringing a vehicle to market within 18 months.

Add 1+2+3, and you get a smaller, lighter, simpler (and let's not forget, cheaper) New Beetle with an optional hybrid powertrain.
I wonder if it was market-tested by the same firm that market-tested the Phaeton?

VW could sell a whole lot of NB's with some minor adjustments. First, a lot of folks just can't see spending $20,000+ on a NB. Back to it's roots, the Beetle was entry-level priced and had a reputation for a lot of dependable miles. So I think the price point has to be lowered and demand will soar. Second, when folks look at a car this small, they expect to see a higher miles per gallon rating than what the NB currently boasts. They have to find a way to ratchet the fuel economy up a bit.

What I'm saying is that the NB can be the entry level car they are talking about.

I honestly believe the new car market in North America is shifting. The automakers felt that the public's love of the SUV/light truck was so strong that fuel economy was not the deciding factor. The automakers felt that most people do not pay attention to fuel economy as amongst the main reasons driving sales. But with gasoline prices at $3 a gallon, two things are going to happen. Sticker shock at the pump is a reality. But it's not just the fuel you put in your car. In most places in the U.S., and certainly in the heavily populated northeastern corridor, you have to heat your home. We have yet to experience a winter with home heating oil and gas prices $1 a gallon higher than last winter. When it costs $80 to fill up your gas-guzzler and you simultaneously get socked with a huge home heating bill, the public is going to sober up and take a hard look at fuel economy.

Volkswagen, build diesels as fast as you can, and you will sell everyone you make. Go ahead and bring a hybrid in, those will sell, too. But a fuel efficient NB with a lower price point will sell like hotcakes.

All, of course, in my opinion.

[superseagulls]

Hi,
I live in the UK (but moving to Massachusetts soon), so I am used to smaller cars and more fuel efficient engines. I think VW could already have a really viable, clean, cheap diesel engine already available to them.
In Europe we have the smallest Audi, the A2; this is available with a 1.4Tdi engine.
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/specs.jsp?section=/models/a2&modcode=8Z0044++00
Now with mileage like this available, they could sell loads of them! Granted it's not going to win any prizes for racing, but if you want a daily 'plodder' and have better things to spend your hard earned cash on than fuel it could be the ticket...

Acceleration, 0-62 mph (in secs) 12.3
Fuel consumption according to 1999/100/EU in mpg
- urban 49.6
- extra urban 78.5
- combined 64.2
according to 1999/100/EU in litres per 100km
- urban 5.7
- extra urban 3.6
- combined 4.4

[Fowvay]

Hi,
I live in the UK (but moving to Massachusetts soon), so I am used to smaller cars and more fuel efficient engines. I think VW could already have a really viable, clean, cheap diesel engine already available to them.
In Europe we have the smallest Audi, the A2; this is available with a 1.4Tdi engine.
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/specs.jsp?section=/models/a2&modcode=8Z0044++00
Now with mileage like this available, they could sell loads of them! Granted it's not going to win any prizes for racing, but if you want a daily 'plodder' and have better things to spend your hard earned cash on than fuel it could be the ticket...

Acceleration, 0-62 mph (in secs) 12.3
Fuel consumption according to 1999/100/EU in mpg
- urban 49.6
- extra urban 78.5
- combined 64.2
according to 1999/100/EU in litres per 100km
- urban 5.7
- extra urban 3.6
- combined 4.4

Translated to the smaller North American Gallon.

City 41.3 mpg
highway 65.4 mpg
Combined 53.5mpg

Not bad...not bad at all :)



http://www.caflisch.ch/images/audi/AUDI%20A2%20INNENRAUM%203L%20TDI%20KOMPR.jpg

http://www.auto-sfondi-desktop.com/Wallpapers_Audi_/Audi-A2/Audi-A2-05/Audi-A2-05_1024.jpg

[globug01]

Let's hope they think about rear-wheel drive for the Beetle next time around!!:D

[Pulgamovil]

VW should make a ton of dieselmpowered Beetles and sell em with 16 inch wheels, no sunroof and sell em for 16 to 17 K and also make a gas powered turbo beetle based on the 1.6 liter and make 130 to 140hp.

That will make them a hit!

In Mexico we get a lot of small cars that are not availiable in the USA, they are like 70% of the car market, all of them have less than 1.8 liter engines and most are 1.4 liter and 1.6 liter.

My peugeot 206 is 1.6 liter 110 Hp and makes the 0-100 in 9 flat and has a top speed if 121 mph (if you dare!), it is reasonable, confortable and very economic to operate, it gives me 36 mpg and 41 mpg hwy!!!

Renault sells the Clio here, also Ford sells the Fiesta 1.6, Gm sells the Corsa and Nissan has 3 subcompacts, its no use having a large motor in the traffic and also at 2 90 a gallon its senseless to have 300 hp @ 20 mpg and be stuck in traffic.

here are some pics.

Btw little vans like the Touran (not sold here) are popular GM sells the Zafira, the Meriva, Renault sells the Scenic, Peugeot the 307...all quite popular

[BUGSTUFF]

Kevin,
Thanks a ton for posting the additional Caddy Life pictures! The more I see of it, the more I want one! Of course, I can't give up the Eurovan and my wife won't give up her NB, but my son will be driving in a couple of years and it would be a perfect car for him (or a commuter car for me;) ). I'm thinking that VW should get them onto the 2006 auto show circuit here in the US and take note of consumer reaction, although I'm sure that it won't happen because of the new Passat, the new Golf/GTI and the Eos being featured. But maybe for 2007?????

Why develop a new line for the US market when the Caddy already exists? VW obviously wants to save money - that's where the VW/Chrysler van concept comes from. Element, xB and PT Cruiser sales seem to be pretty good (at least in the Chicago area) - who says VW can't get a piece of the pie? Especially if offered with a TDI? Even the new Dodge Caliber (the Neon replacement) is going to get a VW TDI.

Let's hope that the powers-that-be at VW read Jamie's opinions/thoughts on the Caddy Life.:) And like I said before, the aftermarket would have a blast with them.

[TechnoTrix'd]

Nope, the Polo is one class below the Golf. (snip)...

The Concept One was Polo-based, and was quite a bit smaller than the production New Beetle. Apparently, Ferdinand Piech made the decision to move the production NB to the Golf platform.

Great thread BTW.

Just one comment on this topic is that Heir Piech was ready to cancel all development of the New Beetle after he rode and drove the early Polo based test car.

He demanded a more stable, golf level fit-n-finish type of car from the project team; which is why they bumped it up to the Mk IV platform.

So, not sure how the Polo platforms of '96 stack up against the '06 ones, but it did not work the first time.

Now, if they are truly going "back-to-basics", and the Golf level of performance (handling, acceleration, ride comfort, finish, etc..) is not a requirement, then the Polo is a great choice.

Also, the hybrid powertrain would be a perfect market marriage to a smaller, lighter "cleaner" beetle. This would produce the buzz among the enviro demographics who in fact, make up a significant core group of the loyal VWoA customers. (see VW's diesel sales vs. other like manufactures selling in the US)

But hey, VWoA has never displayed those kinds of "smarts", so no worries that they would ever go through with it....:wink2:

TechnoTrix'd...:wave3:

[Dorado]

Here in the US NB's advertize VW on the road, and they bring people into VW dealerships even if they come to buy something else. On this side of the pond, I think only the NB has broad appeal beyond VW fans.

Next gen NB should be more roomy inside (how about a rear split door...), roomier trunk area, and have a TDI hybrid option!:) I wouldn't trade our NB TDI for anything else!

[Concept1]

Since there is going to be a roughly year-long hiatus of the Diesels while VW retools and gets the next generation Diesel models rolling perhaps this would be a good time to completely redesign the New Beetle as well. The Jetta will apparently be the first to get the next generation Diesel engine along with a Gas Hybrid model in late 2007 as 2008 model year introductions. It's said the Golf and New Beetle will get the new Diesel engine the following year and then all three get a Diesel Hybrid the year after that. I'm hoping they bring over the Polo (especially the CrossPolo) as well.

[FineExampl]

Not likely. Every buzz i've ever heard is things are changing with VW and it looks like the Beetle will be vanishing in the next few years. Sad really, but i guess that's the way it goes.

[Beeble]

I don't get that from what I've read. And why would they take a seven-year-old design and tweak it if they were going to drop the model in a couple of years?

The article Per quoted said "Wohl aber einen Nachfolger für den Beetle. Trotz der mittlerweile eingetretenen Verkaufsflaute hält man an dem Retroauto fest - und wird sich mit der Neuauflage womöglich noch viel mehr am Ourfit des Originals orientieren. Die mühsame Modernisierung des Denkmals gilt im Nachhinein als Fehler. Wenn Käfer, dann richtig."

Translation: There will, however, be a successor to the Beetle. Despite the recently seen drop in sales, the Retro style is still popular [unclear whether with VW or buyers, however] - and will possibly be even more closely based on the original's configuration. The tiresome modernization of the classic is seen to be a failure in retrospect. If it's going to be a Beetle, then it should be a proper one.

There was also a rumor in the British auto press, back in April, that the Ragster was on the verge of getting a green light. Since we've heard nothing of that since, it may have been wishful thinking.

Meanwhile, there was an article on the German Beetle-forums.de stating that VW has announced a "budget" model. This is just a NB without a bunch of the high-end options - Package 0, you might say. But it signals an awareness that there's market share being lost because of the price point.

All in all, this sounds to me like there's still life left in the Käferchen.

[Billsbug]

Latest issue of Automobile Mag sez "Porsche buys share of VW. Ragster out. No replacement for the New Beetle."

[FineExampl]

Latest issue of Automobile Mag sez "Porsche buys share of VW. Ragster out. No replacement for the New Beetle."That was what i had heard. The press release or something mentioning it is linked here in another thread.

[Concept1]

Didn't that whole Porsche thing fall apart months ago? The Ragster got a lot of positive feedback at the auto shows and it's not difficult to do. Here is the link to the Automobile Magazine article:

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0601_volkswagen_plans/index.html

Actually they don't explain anything and already I see errors. Isn't the Phaeton being dropped in the US? What about the new Polo/Polo-based entry level vehicle? No mention of Diesels and Hybrids which are already confirmed. I would say that if this IN/OUT list was true then Volkswagen's days are numbered, at least in the US.

[Deserion]

Road & Track states the Phaeton will be re-emerging as a lower-priced lux car with sportier looks.

Of course, the mags are produced a month or two ahead of time, so the info is not always up-to-the-minute accurate.

-Des

[ccain529]

OK , well if you will allow me to throw in my two cents.....
The talk of a next generation New Beetle tends to make the mouths of beetle enthusiasts water...However, lets not forget that the New Beetle was designed in a studio in California and geared solely to interest in the U.S. The fact that it caught on around the world, correct me if I’m wrong, was a real surprise to VW. And just like everything here in the States, when the new wears off of something the masses seem to cast it away and forget about it.
The problem is this, we have a few stuffed shirt old men deciding for us (here in the States) what we like and don’t like. Their decisions are based solely on marketability and potential sales. Therefore safer is better. And like mindless drones the population tends to follow this trend.
Now, if VW decides to make a New Beetle / Polo variant it WILL NOT be offered in the U.S. due to federal automotive safety standards. Until the bureaucrats get it out of their heads that the populous of the U.S. wants chromed up clones of 59 Cadillacs or some monster gas guzzling Military Vehicle, well, let’s just say that the enthusiasts market will suffer.
Long story short...The “Few” make all the decisions for the “Masses”. I don’t see any change in the near future.
All good things come to an end. The problem now is that all the wrong people are in charge.
If the Aircooled Beetle had never came to be and was just introduced...It would not even be offered for sale in the United States. And it’s production numbers wouldn’t even come close to 2% of the numbers of that model that were actually made.
I hate to be a spoil sport, but that is the realist coming out in me. Sorry.
I would be very-very surprised if a smaller NB or even the Polo were ever allowed to come to the US.

[Concept1]

Now, if VW decides to make a New Beetle / Polo variant it WILL NOT be offered in the U.S. due to federal automotive safety standards.

I would be very-very surprised if a smaller NB or even the Polo were ever allowed to come to the US.

I'm not sure I follow. If BMW can sell the Mini Cooper here why would VW be prevented from selling the Polo which is larger? It's all up to VW really. Unfortunately they don't have a clue.

[ccain529]

I'm not sure I follow. If BMW can sell the Mini Cooper here why would VW be prevented from selling the Polo which is larger? It's all up to VW really. Unfortunately they don't have a clue.

Well, I stand corrected on the size issue. After some research I find the the Wheel Base (center to center) of the Polo is only 60cm shorter than that of the New Mini Cooper.
Granted that the New Mini Cooper is way bigger than the original.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/ccain529/minipolo.jpg
In the US auto market, size has become a status symbol -- the latest incarnation of auto-machismo -- but it also is equated with safety. Smaller, fuel-efficient Euro-models do not comply with stringent safety standards, but there is a different scale of reference on US roads. While fuel economy is an increasingly important consideration, driving in the shadow of a thundering three-ton SUV can put things in a different perspective.
The choice, however isn't up to VW...I've read the stories that claim the Polo is coming to the US but bear in mind that USDOT publishes regulations for all cars manufactured and sold in America, and the same rules apply to cars to be imported. The guidelines establish procedures "governing the importation of motor vehicles subject to the Federal motor vehicle safety, bumper, and theft prevention standards," as the regulations state.
I venture to say that before the Polo comes to the US it will be nothing more than a rebadged Golf.(US spec Golf that is and not the scaled down Euro Version)

[Beeble]

Is that 60cm (~2 feet) or 60mm (~2.5 inches)? Seems like a 2-foot difference would be huge in a car that size.

[ccain529]

Is that 60cm (~2 feet) or 60mm (~2.5 inches)? Seems like a 2-foot difference would be huge in a car that size.

Yeah, you cought me! I was just seein' if you guys were on your toes!:p No, It should have read 60mm!
Thanks!

[Concept1]

Well, I stand corrected on the size issue. After some research I find the the Wheel Base (center to center) of the Polo is only 60cm shorter than that of the New Mini Cooper.

Granted that the New Mini Cooper is way bigger than the original.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/ccain529/minipolo.jpg

In the US auto market, size has become a status symbol -- the latest incarnation of auto-machismo -- but it also is equated with safety. Smaller, fuel-efficient Euro-models do not comply with stringent safety standards, but there is a different scale of reference on US roads. While fuel economy is an increasingly important consideration, driving in the shadow of a thundering three-ton SUV can put things in a different perspective.

Do you have a larger version of that graphic? Clearly VW needs to compromise and just bring over the CrossPolo. Now that's a compromise I can live with!

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/002__scaled_600_076.jpg