DaimlerChrysler and Volkswagen to Build a Minivan for the US Market

[Deserion]

And also by offering a vehicle that people will buy, it helps secure Volkswagen's place in the US market. You know, something that keeps them from leaving...

-Des

[Steinola]

Originally Posted by digitalputty

We dont need another minivan on the road. There are too many already and, if someone wants a minivan they can buy one of the many already in existance.

LOL! That's a very silly stance, DP. Afterall... aren't there just too many vehicles already in general? I mean, if someone wants a vehicle, heck, why doesn't everyone just buy a Ford Taurus. There should be no need for any other vehicle to be on the road, should there?

I'm in the market for a minivan at the moment... and I gotta tell you, I'm far from impressed with anything that I've seen thusfar. I wouldn't buy anything that's currently on the market. The Toyota Sienna gets closest to something I'd buy, but it's still not there.

I'm not saying that this VW minivan will end up being any better than what's out there. But to say that VW shouldn't even try because there's a glut of minivans available is a little ludicrous, not to mention naive.

[Mortville]

This is the worst news ever! The last thing we need on the road is another Mommymobile!! The Toureg and the Phaeton were a step in the wrong direction, but this latest idea is just disgusting!!!

[Steinola]

I guess I'm not understanding the hostility toward this news. "Angry"? "Disgusting"? Come on, folks, it's a car.

My god... Mortville's comment makes it sound like VW never made a minivan before... when, in fact, they pretty much invented (or at the very least "refined") the genre so many many years ago (long before it was "popular").

I would understand if VW was announcing that they were going to make something akin to a Hummer (why anybody needs a Hummer, outside of a battlefield, is beyond me)... but they're not. They're announcing that they want to build a minivan. A vehicle that has legitimate reasons for being on the road, and a vehicle that, up to now, hasn't been adequately designed (IMHO).

I'm more dismayed that it's a partnership with Chrysler than I am that it's a minivan.

[Cody]

Well, I agree with the 100% dismayal of Fowvay.

Minivans are just not that great in general. 99% of the time I see one or two people driving around in them, driving obnoxiously, wasting gas, and being too big. There is some legitimacy, and not all (not even nearly) minivan drivers are bad drivers. I just don't get why we need one.

Also, I don't like the idea ONE BIT that VW is teaming up with Chrysler to make this. Chrysler isn't an inherently bad company, but it's an American car. Which means a guzzling, droning engine with 10mpg and 100hp, a sloppy sloopy drivtrain with probably 3 speeds, and steering that's as numb as novacaine. This scares me. A VW CAN NOT EVER be a VW without a spirited engine and communicative steering. I don't know how VW is going to get around the fact that it's a VW badged Chrysler boring-inefficient-people-hauler. And my bet is that they won't.

First the Toyota Jetta, now the Chrysler Minibus.

Cody

[pdoel]

Ugh. What sad, sad news. I agree with the others that some other type of vehicle that people actually liked to drive, that has personality, would be a much better alternative. Nothing against the minivan. People who have them seem to love them. They sure do come in handy. But they're kinda boring.

The Toyota Siena and Honda Odyssey are exceptions. I think those are actually pretty cool.

It just sucks to see VW who has a history with the minivan, a huge following with the bus, to team up with Chrysler? While it does seem Chrysler's rep is getting a bit better, I just still don't have that great a respect for their minivans. My sister has one and loves it, but they've also had quite a few problems with it.

I often see not too old Chrysler minivans driving down the road, blowing disgusting fumes everywhere. They just don't seem all that reliable.

For a company with so much character as VW, I just think this is a horrible joint venture.

[Mortville]

Regardless of what anyone thinks, I stand by my opinion that this venture is just wrong. If VW wanted to create a van, then do it. To team up with Chrysler to produce another minivan just really disappoints me. A "minivan" is a vehichle for lazy mommys to make their lives "easier", full of TV screens to numb their children with mindless cartoons instead of actually parenting them... while they talk on their cellphones about hectic their life is. Sorry to be so passionate about this, but for some reason I see the current definition of "minivan" as a symbol of laziness rather than convienience. My parents gave birth to five children who got along just fine without the convieniences of a minivan. Maybe I'm way off base here, and I'm willing to hear other pionts of view...I'm sure they're out there!

[BUGSTUFF]

Alright, I'm going to chime in here. There's been quite a bit of discussion about this venture, both here and on the Vortex. Some of the comments have been pretty colorful and it's nice to see how loyal VW folks can be.

We own a New Beetle, a Eurovan and a SuperBeetle convertible. Prior to the Eurovan we owned a '96 Dodge Caravan. I loved the Caravan and I really love the Eurovan, but you really can't compare them because they're two different animals. The Dodge drove like a car and the EV drives like the utilitarian people and stuff mover that it is. Both got around 18-22 mpg.

I take offense to the "lazy mommy" comment - without the Eurovan we couldn't tow our pop-up camper, we couldn't tow our Superbeetle and I would have had a heck of a time moving my father's furniture last spring. There's nothing "mini" about our EV. We don't have a TV in our van but VW did provide us with a table and rear facing seats so that we can hang out in the van when necessary. We camp and attend many VW shows & events and people are amazed by the features that our van offers. It comes in handy when we need to pick up out-of-town family members from the airport. We needed a people & stuff hauler and our only other option would have been a gas guzzling pick-up. The Touareg is cool but not very practical for our application.

The venture between VW and D/C is all about money. Due to poor marketing, the Eurovan never found it's niche in the US minivan market. Pricing was also a problem, but the VW loyalists knew that they were getting their money's worth by staying with VW. VW says it would cost too much to bring the new T5 to the US and maybe they're right. But it just might be that they again won't be able to get their share of the market with a van that is unfamiliar to the majority of the potential van buyers. So let VW put their name on a familiar vehicle, get their foot in the door, have some success and then maybe they'll feel comfortable about bringing a vehicle of their own design over here again. The loyalists know that VW invented the minivan, but the general public thinks that Chrysler did. Like Des said, the new head of VW is the former head of D/C, so mergers like this are pretty much inevitable. The US VW dealerships are howling and pleading with VWaG for a people mover and this is VW's solution, at least for the time being.

VW will be providing TDI engines for the new Dodge Caliber (the Neon replacement). D/C will be providing the powertrain for the new van. So maybe, in a roundabout way, VW will finally get a diesel powered van in the US....

I'm very brand loyal, and as I did with the new Jetta, I'm not going to pass any judgements until I see the finished product for myself.

Hey Steinola, see if you can find a nice late model Eurovan for sale in your area!!!

Oh well, just my 02 cents....

[digitalputty]

Originally Posted by Mortville

...mindless cartoons...

I like cartoons. Most arent mindless.
:P

[Mortville]

Originally Posted by BUGSTUFF

.

I take offense to the "lazy mommy" comment - without the Eurovan we couldn't tow our pop-up camper, we couldn't tow our Superbeetle and I would have had a heck of a time moving my father's furniture last spring. There's nothing "mini" about our EV. We don't have a TV in our van but VW did provide us with a table and rear facing seats so that we can hang out in the van when necessary. We camp and attend many VW shows & events and people are amazed by the features that our van offers. It comes in handy when we need to pick up out-of-town family members from the airport. We needed a people & stuff hauler and our only other option would have been a gas guzzling pick-up. The Touareg is cool but not very practical for our application.

I never said that I had a problem with the Eurovan.

[Mortville]

Originally Posted by digitalputty

I like cartoons. Most arent mindless.
:P

Ok...the cartoons may not be mindless...it's the parents who use the TV as a babysitter that are.

[ccain529]

Man, I have tried every search I can think of to find spy photos or concept photos of this thing! There are none to be found. I did find these pics. The first one is a concept vehicle but the second one is from a website that lists this as the 2007 Sharan..I read on an overseas website(which I had to translate) that the new US minivan would be marketed as the Sharan. Like I said it was an overseas website and I had to translate the text, so I guess one should take this with a grain of salt!

[BUGSTUFF]

Here's a couple of spyshots of the D/C version, but you'll have to use your imagination a little.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enth...178.A9849.html

[EVZBUG]

Originally Posted by madjalapeno

I drove a Mercedes A-class in London, was smaller and more nippy than a minivan.

Speaking of Mercedes-Benz, I am here in Toronto, and they offer a B-Class, which looks like a squashed R-Class crossover. They also have Smart Cars and Smart Car convertibles....I just drove my grandmother's 1995 C280 yesterday, which was made prior to the Daimler Chrysler marriage, and I was reminded of how solid and "German" Mercedes felt back in the day. I'm not too happy about Chrysler making minivans with us, especially given the fact that VW's van history goes back to 1950. I will wait to see it in person before I make any real opinions...

Here's a random fact--did you know that the first Plymouth Horizons and Dodge Omnis, which were Chrysler's Rabbit knockoffs, had Rabbit engines?!?!?

[Porkchop]

Originally Posted by EVZBUG

Here's a random fact--did you know that the first Plymouth Horizons and Dodge Omnis, which were Chrysler's Rabbit knockoffs, had Rabbit engines?!?!?

I never knew this, so I looked it up:

Inside the United States, using Volkswagen 1.7 liter engines - an enlarged version of Volkswagen's Golf engine, modified for Chrysler, it produced 75 horsepower and 90 lb-ft of torque, competitive for that time; Rabbits (US Golfs) were sold with lower horsepower. Chrysler reportedly had a five-year contract for these engines, which were used until mid-1983.

So if you bought the Chrysler product, you got more hp. Weird.

[Beeble]

I don't think some of you guys understand how life works. If you have kids, or play in a band, or have a job or hobby that requires carrying around a lot of stuff, then you need a minivan. I qualify for several of the above and could not live without it. I would rather drive the Beeble, but it's not a car for all seasons. We have to have a van.

It's true that, much of the time, the van does not get driven with a full load. And...? You carry four or five people in your NB every time you drive it? I thought not. I can't afford to keep an Insight in the driveway for the times when a minivan is not absolutely essential, so I have to drive the van by myself.

It gets 20/25 mpg hauling five people and all their gear on vacation. I can lay a 4x8' sheet of plywood flat in the back. I can easily load a sound cart, four guitar cases, two amps and assorted equipment in the back. The NB will do none of that.

There is a place in the world for minivans. You may not live in that place, but others do, so live and let live, please.

[digitalputty]

Your primary vehicle is a diesel bug right? 45mpg right? Most people around me who have one kid have an SUV and a mini van. Or two SUV's ... or more. Hardly anyone uses a car as their primary vehicle & most people dont even have a 'car'.

[kcfoxie]

Wow.. this thread's gone on and on. Here are my thoughts:

1) I think many repete minivan owners are trapped in a mindset. When I grew up and moved out, my younger cousin/half-sister (LONG story and no we're not inbred) also went to live with her father again. My mom was hit head on in her Aerostar, which she'd had for about 6 or 7 years, and was devistated. She LOVED that Van, it was her FIRST new car (and she was well into her mid 30s at the time). She wanted ANOTHER minivan. She got a Focus, though. Why? Well, Ford's new Windstar was "too car like," and Dodge's cars "are too electric," the Focus is a station wagon. I tried to get her into a EuroVan (too big) and a Jetta/Passat Wagon (a bit pricy). She regrets the Focus, it's been a pain and has left her stranded (reads: not starting at all and once stalled on the roadway) more than 5 times and she's had it less than 4 years. Unacceptable by even my Ford-proud family's terms. It's her had Ford. (in comparison my "clunky beetles" have never failed, and if they did they were over the age of 20 and it was acceptable).

My mom was stuck in mommy-minivan mode. To feel "on par" with her kid-clad co-workers, she wanted another van. Cost, dealer's attitudes and gas consumption changed her tune. Now she wants a Rabbit Diesel from the 80s ("when cars still were made to last.")

I think that the Van would be called Sharan. It's a slight mod of the Sharon van, which apparently sells well. A diesel van would sell like HOTCAKES, problem is that VW has said (according to two dealers now) that there won't be any TDIs in 2007, because of the low-sulfur/EPA crap going on. So... would this be a 2006 model? Or would this be a 2008? I'm betting 2008.

Onto the topic of options, VW as a compay, etc. VW isn't the company they were in 1962. In the two years I have owned my beetle I've seen them go from coocky college kid company to the young yuppie professional. The beetle and Jetta IV were "the college cars," Touareg, Phaeton, Jetta/Passat V are the "new redefined upscale and mature" VW. Be it that I'm 23, I hate that. With a passion. I want the cooky, alternative, "I think he's one of them pot smokers" VW back. Like I want my alternative "screw you" Apple back, but that's ANOTHER rant.

So.. what I've seen is this: hook the up and coming out of college kids with a car that's affordable ($24k with nice options) that makes their coworkers think "wow he's got a nice ride and a nice job, he's moving on it," they offer a SUV *and* minivan for when that man or woman is married and has kids, and they'll soon offer the old executive's convertible (Eos). You can see that each new car has a direct-to-business-professional stereotype built into it. Heck, the first NEw Beetle Convertible ad showed a young 20s-something executive clammoring for the thrills of outside life as he spied the car from the breezeway. It's written all over the wall. (Yes, Virginia, the Beetle will soon be dead).

Onto this VW shouldn't make a van. I think THEY SHOULD. They were THE FIRST. I am also bothered by the D/C joint venture, BUT D/C has made Vans the entire time VW did not. They know the US market, VW has a better knowledge of how to build a car. If this plays out right you'll have an engine that can be serviced by ANY D/C dealer worldwide, with VWs style and durability. I agree that the EuroVan was poorly marketed (the "EuroVan.. nothing mini about it" with hitchhikers ad was cute), but also VW has lost "the van edge," because people want another Microbus before they'll look at a EuroVan. The Beetle, essentally, got folks back to the lot. 7 years later they have cars that can compete with the overly popular Toyta Corolla (aka Jetta V) and the Ford Explorer (Hello, Touareg).

It's all business. VW is a company, not a person, and they want to stay in business. That means selling more cars, year after year. It's a numbers game.

So... D/C, as long as it's just mechanical parts they bring, could allow us to see the NEXT microbus, but likely i'll look like all the other minivans (they all really DO kind of look the same, I don't care what you say), but with a rocking interior that'll match no other. Little things like dual climate control, likely in-headrest TV monitors for the back seat occupants, and a DVD-navigation system all standard on a $26,000 minivan ... that would give Dodge and Ford a death knell. Really, it would.

So.. VW... as a van maker.. hell yeah. We'll see the adventerous ones come out of the woodworks for that (VW Bus owners and VW Bug owners are two different types -- ask any VW Club!) and will love it. Those who don't know but like the options, may get swept into the culture. Those of us who point and laugh or walk by with our noses in the air... just need to get over it.

Vans are useful. I can't say that enough. Beetles are useful, too. No, I don't haul 4-5 people every time I'm in mine, it's usually me and the iPod. No more than two, usually. But I hve carried 5 in it before. I have also moved a sofa, a chair, several futons and other objects in my car. Why? I believe I can. I'd do it if I had a Scion or Honda, too. I'm just like that. Would I buy a VW Van? If it came in a Westfalia (and I bet it will) with a Diesel I'd be ALL over it. It'd be a car I'd use one month out of the year, unless I needed to move to haul something. But thats ok.

And, this puts VW back into the minds of those who think anything less that moves less than 6 people is unacceptable for their needs.

[Beeble]

Hardly anyone uses a car as their primary vehicle & most people dont even have a 'car'.

Agreed that most people are morons. (I know that's inflammatory, but I can prove mathematically that half of them are of below average intelligence!) But if they need the space, or think they do, then that's where the market is. Not building what they want is not going to change many opinions. We'll let OPEC work on the other angle....

[GatorBeetle]

I'll reserve judgement until they release some more info on design and how they will be marketing/packaging them...as long as they don't look like this...