New Beetle .. My Opinion :)

[VWBubba]

Originally Posted by pdoel

You can beg to differ all you want. But the simple fact is, the 2012 IS closer to the design of the original than the NB ever was. It was designed that way on purpose. If you can't see that, not much anyone can do about that. But just cause you don't see it, doesn't mean you are correct in your opinion in that matter.

I am doing my best here to see it your way but still can't. Look at the lines on the old a NB, they curve, the 2012 has more 'edges' and lines.

Either way, this was not the argument, the point was only made regarding the rear lights, the front lower corners and the 'sills'. I only expressed my opinion that if they had left the rear lights in the center of the arch like the previous versions rather than elongated them and stuffed them under the boot lid .. I would be a happy boy

[pdoel]

Originally Posted by VWBubba

Either way, this was not the argument, the point was only made regarding the rear lights, the front lower corners and the 'sills'. I only expressed my opinion that if they had left the rear lights in the center of the arch like the previous versions rather than elongated them and stuffed them under the boot lid .. I would be a happy boy

Well, I'm just responding mainly to your comments that you think the original was a classic, and that you loved the NB, and that they key has always been that it was easily identifiable as a Beetle, but that you don't believe the 2012 is. And that you're afraid that with the step they went with the 2012, eventually they will completely stray from the original design of the Beetle.

That's clearly not the case, as, since many have already stated (including VW who actually designed the car), the 2012 is more intune with the design of the original than the NB ever was.

So sure, you can not like some features of the 2012 (ie tail lights) but that doesn't change the fact that VW designed the 2012 to be much closer to the shape of the original, than they did with the 1998. And it clearly shows. Even just looking at those profiles of the three models posted a bit ago, it's clearly evident.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by pdoel

You can beg to differ all you want. But the simple fact is, the 2012 IS closer to the design of the original than the NB ever was. It was designed that way on purpose. If you can't see that, not much anyone can do about that. But just cause you don't see it, doesn't mean you are correct in your opinion in that matter.

Just because it is closer to the "Original" design doesn't make it better. In my opinion the "New Beetle" was an improvement over the "Original" design and it looked more rounded and the overall shape had an appealing uninterrupted flow. The 2012 while perhaps closer to the "Original" design is a lot more edgy with it's flat corners and the harsh rear. And the Jolly Lady Bug was turned more into a June Bug for 2012. I think by going back closer to the "Original" design VW took a step back.
But beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I am sure regardless of how people preceive it the 2012 design will catch on. Some people will absolutely love it, some will hate it and others like me are still on the fence about it.
Personally, I love everthing about it, drivetrain, interrior, technology. I just haven't warmed up to the overall shape yet.
But I am sure in time even I will warm up to it

[squeebug]

Personally I jumped over the fence. I think the 2012 resembles the original much more than the 98-10. Now if they just went and made them the same price as the original that would be awesome

If I had the money and was in the market for a new car, then I would seriously look at a 2012 Bug.

[VWBubba]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Just because it is closer to the "Original" design doesn't make it better. In my opinion the "New Beetle" was an improvement over the "Original" design and it looked more rounded and the overall shape had an appealing uninterrupted flow. Some people will absolutely love it, some will hate it and others like me are still on the fence about it.
Personally, I love everthing about it, drivetrain, interrior, technology. I just haven't warmed up to the overall shape yet.
But I am sure in time even I will warm up to it

Very nicely put there Indy Tom

[Smileybug]

You can't really lump all of the '98-'10 cars together in appearance really. I'm still not a fan of the '06+ facelifted design. Probably never will be. That, I thought was not a great move by VW. The car was due for a full redesign by then really (they had already moved to the Mk5 platform) and they took the bubbly NB and squared it off. They actually made the flattening and squaring off flow a lot better with the Beetle. It looks like the original, which is what a lot of people had complaints about with the NB. Even I acknowledged it, and I love the NB. But I also am a VW lover through and through...my love started with the aircooleds and I'm all about "respecting the heritage" VW hit the nail on the head with the Beetle, IMO. They modernized the original Beetle very well. It even has some Porsche undertones.

If you can get all the guys in The Car Lounge excited about the car, VW did something right. And Car Lounge had a very positive response the Beetle.

[VWBubba]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

It even has some Porsche undertones.

Exactly my point, It's a Beetle not a Porsche

[pdoel]

Originally Posted by VWBubba

Exactly my point, It's a Beetle not a Porsche

The original Beetle had ties to Porsche.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by pdoel

The original Beetle had ties to Porsche.

It's more like the other way around. Ferdinand Porsche designed the original Beetle and later used it's platform to develop racing cars which later became Porsche.
The 914 Porsche was actually called the VW Porsche since it was more VW than Porsche.
Now VW is very close to own Porsche once again. The takeover was delayed last November but VW already owns 49% of Porsche so it is just a matter of time before Porsche will be completely absorbed by VW.

[a6m5zerosen]

I have a 2012 tornado red Beetle and I love it. I'm not biased, as I have owned many VWs over the years. I love the styling and, while it does in some ways pay homage to the classic Beetle, it has its own unique feel and personality. I traded in my 2008 Rabbit on it and am continually amazed at how nimble it is-it is much more responsive to steering input than my Rabbit was. Love the bright headlights and the color changeable accent lighting on the inside, the keyless ignition, and the comfortable seats. Dislikes-the lack of room in the trunk (especially with the Fender audio system), the inability to turn off the daytime running lights when running, and the lack of a temperature gauge (although there is a selectable engine coolant temperature display on the multifunction display), and the fact that the sunvisors do not slide on their shafts and extend as they did on my Rabbit. Everywhere I go it turns heads, and I have no regrets whatsoever about buying it. I'm a big guy, and it's comfortable for me and I have plenty of room. Visibility is superb, especially with the long side windows, although I do recommend installing a larger rearview mirror on the inside (I did this and it made a huge difference). Also, if you're like me and rarely have passengers in the rear seats, remove the rear headrests for even better rear vision.

[Palafox]

Originally Posted by pdoel

... what about the 1998 was similar to the original? Nothing.

Exactly!!! that's the whole point of the New Beetle IMO that's good design... 'artistic interpretation of the original'. Back in 1994 architecture was 'in' and we got a beetle that was slab sided with round arches, like it or not, it captured an era of design. Personally I wish it was more Concept 1 but VW is in the buisness of making cars not art.

As for trying to mimic the original... what's the point? As designers we shun at that because it's been done... and also it's not challenging. It's no different than music, do you want to hear covers? or do you want to hear a remix, with little in common with the original, but still retain the flavor.

For 2012, heck anyone can copy the roof line, no skills necessary LOL

[Palafox]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Just because it is closer to the "Original" design doesn't make it better.

I agree, however 'better' is subjective as some folks just want the 'original'. But from a design stand point, 'retro' is a dead end. The PT Cruiser / Prowler are good examples as those cars went retro and faded away, they can't be redesigned LOL.

That's why my favorite 2012 part is the stinking tail lights , its different, and has potential to evolve

[VWBubba]

"its different, and has potential to evolve" .. into something completely different.

Correct me if I am wrong but is the shape not the main attraction of the Beetle, It's individuality that sets it apart from all other cars ? . This individuality that is as different as the people who drive them. My initial remark was based on the fact that from the rear the light clusters were very similar to many other vehicles whereupon the air cooled and the NB were 'Beetle'. Personally I think the 2012 is the business but again in MHO they should have kept the NB shell and put all the juicy bits in from the 2012

[Pushing Fifty]

I had air-cooled Beetles when I was young and then another one from 2003-2009. Then I switched to a water-cooled Beetle, a 2000 NB GLS. The original air-cooled Bugs were arguably the most-loved cars ever built, but IMO, even the most basic NBs are far better cars. So much so that I gave up on air-cooled "classic" Beetles and now I'm a confirmed water-cooled Beetle guy.

I like both the 98-10 models as well as the 2012+. Why? Because they are Beetles! These two generations are obviously different, but both are still unmistakenly recognizable as modern-day interpretations of the originals.

I look at the differences in the 98-10 and the 12+ like the differences between old Bugs before 1967 and after 1968.

[pdoel]

Originally Posted by VWBubba

"its different, and has potential to evolve" .. into something completely different.

Why do you think VW is going to evolve the Beetle into something non-Beetle? Do you really think they're that stupid? For the last 5 years, we've seen artist renderings of what the next Beetle "could" look like. Non of which, came from VW. Some looked similar to a Beetle, some where anything but. And every time, people blasted VW for straying from the design, even though those renderings never came from VW. I just don't get why people are convinced that VW is going to eventually make the Beetle into something that no longer resembles a Beetle.

So while people were so worried that VW was going to stray from the design of a Beetle, what'd they do? They actually designed it to be more in line with the design of the original, than it was with the '98. And what happens? We now still have people convinced that VW is going to stray and evolve the car into something that no longer resembles a Beetle.

Sorry, but if anyone is looking at the 2012 and can't clearly see that it's a Beetle, then there's definitely something wrong with their eyes.

Originally Posted by VWBubba

Correct me if I am wrong but is the shape not the main attraction of the Beetle, It's individuality that sets it apart from all other cars ? . This individuality that is as different as the people who drive them. My initial remark was based on the fact that from the rear the light clusters were very similar to many other vehicles whereupon the air cooled and the NB were 'Beetle'. Personally I think the 2012 is the business but again in MHO they should have kept the NB shell and put all the juicy bits in from the 2012

As for the tail lights, do you realize that back in '72 when VW went to bigger tail lights on the Beetle, people freaked out much more than your reaction to those of the 2012? So you don't like the tail lights, that doesn't mean the car is evoloving away from what it's supposed to be. It just means that the tail lights aren't your taste. Big deal.

As for the design. I'm glad they didn't keep with the design of the NB and just put in the juicey bits. If they had, the car would be dead. These aren't the 60's. People want change. Look at how the NB sales have dropped over the 13 years it was in production under basically the same body. It wasn't exciting anymore. You need more than just new engines and an interior to get people interested in the car again. And guess what, we're talking more about the Beetle now, than we have in the last 5 years. So looks to me, VW had it right.

And you are right, the shape is what defines the Beetle as a Beetle. Which is again why I don't understand your thinking. The shape of the 2012 is much more in line with that of the original. So if anything, you should be more upset that the NB strayed so much from the design of the Beetle. From your own comments, it's clear that the simple fact of the matter is that you prefer the NB to the original or the 2012. Your preference does not equate to VW straying from the design, or making a mistake in the design of the 2012. It just means that's the one you prefer.

[kcfoxie]

I have some gripes about the seats, you can't really remove them. While I'm sure most want to have back seats, I don't. I remove them for the cargo space, but they appear to be structural to the new model. I also don't like the omission of a trunk release button in the interior, you use the fob or the badge ... there was no answer as to how that worked when the engine was running, because we've all picked someone up from a red eye flight at an ungodly hour and been thankful to pull the hatch release, they throw their gear in back, slam it and jump in the driver door. The idea of having to set something down to press the release button on the hatch miffs me, I have to say. It would on any modern car.

However I can't complain about much else. The interior headroom wasn't lost. I'm not keen on the sloping, the rear end is hideous (almost up there with the Clubman) and the headlights appear to be yet another incantation of the BS we've put up with for 14 years now.

If I totaled my car tomorrow, and had the option of buying a 2013 with a TDI, I'd still get another pre-03.

[Smileybug]

Originally Posted by kcfoxie

If I totaled my car tomorrow, and had the option of buying a 2013 with a TDI, I'd still get another pre-03.

I feel that's more due to the engine than the car as a whole though. We know you love your ALH's

[kcfoxie]

No I don't like the 06 either. I picked the Jetta over an 06 because I just didn't like the changes to the body nor the cluster. The engine has some to do with it, but since I can strip the exhaust off a CR2.0 now I have little reason to not like it. Software, as I knew all along, can make that motor a very good and long-lasting device. That's why a 2009 CR Wagon isn't off my radar now.

[IndyTom]

How about the E-Bugster?

I like the chopped roof but with the lower lines the Beetle is developing closer into a Porsche Look a like then a traditional Beetle.