Top issues, need help.

[Tico4Life]

Ok, so I know the dealer has to fix this and allegedly it'll cost me $285 as quoted in NY when I purchased the car. My question is this, I was playing with the top yesterday first of all because I am a guy and I can't help myself, and second because I was going thru the treads on top problems. When I went to put a deposit on the car, I lowered the top and it came to a hault before lowering all the way, then it froze and the switch died, it wouldn't go up or down, the flaps stayed up. Took it to the dealer, they manually raised it and diagnosed it to a faulty sensor. I have the part # somewhere. As I said I started playing with it last night and opened it a couple of times with the same result. I manually closed it and then did the window up and down reset.
This time the top goes down further, to the position in the picture but the flaps still stay up. If I hit the switch again the motor whines as if it could still go down more but the top doesn't move. The difference is that the switch does not freeze anymore and I am now able to put it up with out a problem. When I close it the flaps close perfectly as well.
Based on the pictures, is this as low as the top goes or should it still go down further?, has anyone been able to fix this issue in their bug? I have yet to read about a permanent fix to this.
I am still taking the car to the dealership, but I am awfully curious about this top thing. As I said I am a guy and just can't give it a rest.
Thanks in advance.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Very similar to what was happening to mine. What is happening to yours, now. Mine is an '05 so I don't have the flaps, VW deleted!

What is the indicator showing? If it is like mine ('05), the indicator will stop flashing when it is all the way open. It looks to be. What I found was that I was not holding the switch long enough. The more I have operated it, the smoother the operation has gotten. I attribute this to needing to be lubricated. This, according to my OM is an every 40k mile service item (along with checking the auto roll-over protection).

MORAV

[boogety boogety]

My '03 had a similar problem, but instead of the flaps docilely staying up, they self-destructed on one side, and I traded the car for my '06 as a result of this (ugly hole, but no flaps to deal with). During the explanation phase of the tech's excuse list, he did mention that there are sensors in the back end that tell the computer module that the top is fully retracted, and it's OK for the flaps to retract as well. Something like: Undoing the top lock switches the display from temperature to a convertible icon: Then a sensor reports that the top is ready for retraction. While holding the switch up, the flaps deploy, the pump operates and retracts the top, and when the top reaches its lowest point, sensors indicate to the computer that the flaps can be retracted, and the display reverts back to the thermometer. Holding the switch down reverses the process. Seems to me, following this scenario, your top-is-down sensor(s) are acting up. I don't know where they are, but that's where I would start if you're doing your guy-thing instead of going to the dealer...

[Tico4Life]

Well, the thing is, I would love to do the guy thing; but if I do my wife will make sure I can no longer call myself a guy -anatomically speaking if you know what I mean- so dealer it is.
That being said, morav, the light stays amber but does not blink. It blinked before when the whole system was getting stuck but now that the top went down further (and I think its down all the way since I was able to put the boot on just to see if it fit correctly) it stays amber but does not blink. The flap thing probably has to do with the sensor they talk about so much here. I read all treads about this but no one has said "Hey guys, my top and flaps are finally fixed" and if they do a couple of days later they post that the top is back to doing the same thing again.
Any who, I agree with you, lack of usage has to play a big roll on this top saga, but I still think I should pay the man first and get it fixed and then try to maintain it as best I can so I doesn't become a hole in my pocket. Eventually I would like to find a good VW diagnostic tool so I can play and fix our beetle as much as I can. I am not a mechanic but I now my way around cars, although I am a little nervous when it comes to electronics due to their sensitivity AND PRICE!
I had a tranny problem with my Dodge Ram for the longest time. No one could figure it out, I had it scanned at the shop twice, left it there over night, they could not get any codes therefore had no clue as to how to fix it. Next was the dealer, they were as much help as a rock tied around a drowning man's neck. Their solution was replace the transmission for $4000 (yea sure) Make a long story short I read about a solenoid problem they thought to be a cure to the "shuttle shift" or gear hunting problem I had so I took a gamble and ordered the parts, a GM solenoid, a transducer and a GM conversion kit for the base of the solenoid, 9 qts of synthetic atf new filter and pan gasket. Woke up early on a saturday morning, cracked my knuckles and took the transmission bottom apart, yanked the "faulty" parts out, in with the new ones, adjusted the bands as per factory specs and put her belly back together. Well, she has been shifting like a brand new truck for the past 10K miles, all for $300 in parts.

With the beetle I have to be more sensitive because as my wife puts it "You paid for it but is mine"
Here is a pic of it with the boot on. I spent the whole day day cleaning and detailing her. Look at my other tread "our new baby is home" I will be posting a bunch of pics from today.

[58and03beetles]

on the right rear convertible top latching slider in the back there is a sensor (its just a microswitch ) that close when the top is all the way down and then tells the flaps to reverse their cycle. it may need adjustment, or replacement. the part should be cheap, you could even pull one from a car in the wrecking yard (thats what i would do) the high charge is for labor ( entire rear side panel , seats, and more may need to be removed)

if you can get to this sensor through the convertible top tub by the flap, push your finger on the metal contact strip til it clicks, the flaps should retract. If the top does this going up its the one in the right header bow catch hole above the windshield (remove the trim with a bone)

but if youre only having this problem going down ( he he he, most men do , he he he) then its that microswitch.

your top should do this going down:

-undo latch, twist, lift twist back and lock up - mirror display will go from blue to a yellow flashing NBC top down logo
-top flaps quietly whir up and make a light thump sound
-pull and hold top switch and motork whines and then whirs as the top begins to retract, back window thuds and top continues until down
-youll here a whir-whir-whir-whir whirrunnnnnnn and that is the top screws sliding the 2 top latch anchors all the way down, you will here the a DING from the rear view mirror display and it will return to blue with the temperature and simutaneously your flaps will queitly whir down til they go clack against the body

that is normal operation.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

See the post above this, from 58and03Beetles, see the sub title.

I think, at this point, the dealer may be your best option from what he says, unless you are awfully inclined! (lol). At least get a diagnostic and an estimate.

I know what you are saying about problems and diagnosing them. I too had an issue with a GM tranny. On the road, several shops, responses were .
Became concerned of having a major problem and tried one more. Nobody I knew, no body I was referred to, just close to the job I was at, and my hotel. Guy hooks up his equipment, we go for a ride, he's reading different codes as I go thru the motions (first time for this routine, ever). Says, yep, think I know what the problem is, half a day and a couple hundred dollars later, all fixed. Put another 200k miles on the truck and never had another problem.

What I've learned, you can put the best available equipment in the hands of someone, and if they don't have the proper knowledge, or more times than not, the experience, the equipment and tools are all worthless. I think so many shops and/or mechanics don't know, so as to not having to admit it, just figure replace the whole thing, that'll cure the problem, for sure. Although in some cases, it's cheaper than try this, try that, try something else! (lol)

I need to send you a p/m.

MORAV

[Tico4Life]

Originally Posted by 58and03beetles

on the right rear convertible top latching slider in the back there is a sensor (its just a microswitch ) that close when the top is all the way down and then tells the flaps to reverse their cycle. it may need adjustment, or replacement. the part should be cheap, you could even pull one from a car in the wrecking yard (thats what i would do) the high charge is for labor ( entire rear side panel , seats, and more may need to be removed)

if you can get to this sensor through the convertible top tub by the flap, push your finger on the metal contact strip til it clicks, the flaps should retract. If the top does this going up its the one in the right header bow catch hole above the windshield (remove the trim with a bone)

but if youre only having this problem going down ( he he he, most men do , he he he) then its that microswitch.

your top should do this going down:

-undo latch, twist, lift twist back and lock up - mirror display will go from blue to a yellow flashing NBC top down logo
-top flaps quietly whir up and make a light thump sound
-pull and hold top switch and motork whines and then whirs as the top begins to retract, back window thuds and top continues until down
-youll here a whir-whir-whir-whir whirrunnnnnnn and that is the top screws sliding the 2 top latch anchors all the way down, you will here the a DING from the rear view mirror display and it will return to blue with the temperature and simutaneously your flaps will queitly whir down til they go clack against the body

that is normal operation.

Could you help me locate the microswitch based on this picture? I don't see a thing.

[CGK]

Sorry J.
You won't be able to physically see the microswitch from there.
You have to remove the interior side panel to access the micro switches associated with the top and in order to do that, you basically have to disassemble the entire rear interior.
I've done it when I replaced the rear window cables on my vert.
It's not a very difficult task, but, does take some time.

[Tico4Life]

Originally Posted by CGK

Sorry J.
You won't be able to physically see the microswitch from there.
You have to remove the interior side panel to access the micro switches associated with the top and in order to do that, you basically have to disassemble the entire rear interior.
I've done it when I replaced the rear window cables on my vert.
It's not a very difficult task, but, does take some time.

Thanks, that stinks though

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by J.Arce

Thanks, that stinks tough

Well go ahead, you come this far! You might find enough change under the seat to pay for the new microswitch! lmao

And besides, you can clean and condition the part of the seats you couldn't get to!

MORAV

[Tico4Life]

Originally Posted by MyOtherRidesAVette

Well go ahead, you come this far! You might find enough change under the seat to pay for the new microswitch! lmao

And besides, you can clean and condition the part of the seats you couldn't get to!

MORAV

True... very true but I stink at removing panels, that's not my forte for sure!

[Tico4Life]

Three months later I am happy to report that warmer weather has come and with it good things, this being the most exiting:



It was the third time I put the top down in about 3 hrs and the flaps went down nice and gracefully
Now I just hope they behave from here on:D

[car-nerd]

Tico4Life, what ended up being replaced to fix your problem?

I have a similar problem where I can lower the top to the point where the screws should activate to lock the top down, but then the button goes dead and nothing happens; I can't raise the top and it won't complete the opening process either. If I stop lowering before that point I can raise the top, but the button goes dead and it stops about 3 or 4 times on the way up. I have to let go of the button and press it again for it to continue. I've checked a bunch of things mentioned in the forums - window regulator and master switch are working properly, the microswitch in the windshield header is working properly (after raising the top manually and latching it the temperature reappears on the display), the battery appears acceptable (~14.5V running, ~12.8V car off), and the hydraulic fluid level is within the acceptable range. I would believe it's the microswitch in the right rear to indicate the top is finished folding as mentioned earlier in this thread, but why would I not be able to smoothly close the top if I've stopped it part way? Also, I was able to get it to function properly briefly yesterday, but now it's doing it again.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'd much rather be able to fix this myself than have multiple trips to the dealer.

We bought this used with very low mileage a year ago as my wife's dream Beetle (aquarius blue with gray top and turbo) and it worked great all last summer. We've had three Miatae over the past 11 years, and I'm really coming to admire the manual top. I need to get this fixed with the nice weather so we can stop fighting over the Miata and its functional roof Thank you all!

[KobzBug]

Here is the problem I had.....

I put the top down one weekend(Sunday) and put the boot on for the first time (I don't know if this caused it, but it was the first time it acted up like this). Everything seemed fine that day. The next day I drove home from work with the top down and when I tried to put the top back up, it would not respond at all.... I tried everything.... I looked at the micro switches in the boot connectors, sense that was the only thing different I did. Checked the fuse... Checked the pump... I researched it on the forum.... Nothing.... I think I finally tried the window reset and that is what the fix...

Needless to say I have never installed the boot again.

Top is still working fine. Knock on wood

[Tico4Life]

Originally Posted by car-nerd

Tico4Life, what ended up being replaced to fix your problem?

I have a similar problem where I can lower the top to the point where the screws should activate to lock the top down, but then the button goes dead and nothing happens; I can't raise the top and it won't complete the opening process either. If I stop lowering before that point I can raise the top, but the button goes dead and it stops about 3 or 4 times on the way up. I have to let go of the button and press it again for it to continue. I've checked a bunch of things mentioned in the forums - window regulator and master switch are working properly, the microswitch in the windshield header is working properly (after raising the top manually and latching it the temperature reappears on the display), the battery appears acceptable (~14.5V running, ~12.8V car off), and the hydraulic fluid level is within the acceptable range. I would believe it's the microswitch in the right rear to indicate the top is finished folding as mentioned earlier in this thread, but why would I not be able to smoothly close the top if I've stopped it part way? Also, I was able to get it to function properly briefly yesterday, but now it's doing it again.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'd much rather be able to fix this myself than have multiple trips to the dealer.

We bought this used with very low mileage a year ago as my wife's dream Beetle (aquarius blue with gray top and turbo) and it worked great all last summer. We've had three Miatae over the past 11 years, and I'm really coming to admire the manual top. I need to get this fixed with the nice weather so we can stop fighting over the Miata and its functional roof Thank you all!

Originally Posted by KobzBug

Here is the problem I had.....

I put the top down one weekend(Sunday) and put the boot on for the first time (I don't know if this caused it, but it was the first time it acted up like this). Everything seemed fine that day. The next day I drove home from work with the top down and when I tried to put the top back up, it would not respond at all.... I tried everything.... I looked at the micro switches in the boot connectors, sense that was the only thing different I did. Checked the fuse... Checked the pump... I researched it on the forum.... Nothing.... I think I finally tried the window reset and that is what the fix...

Needless to say I have never installed the boot again.

Top is still working fine. Knock on wood

Well, I still have to do what the dealer said needed to be done which is replace the open position sensor. I will say to both of you that your problems are basically one and the same. My top's problems are intermittent, sometimes the top opens and flaps go down and sometimes it freezes, so I have to reset it.

I will do a full DYI as soon as I get this replaced which will be in a week or so now that the weather is better and I will post it here for everyone's reference.

As far as re-setting the top when it freezes, all you have to do is turn off the car and follow these steps:

1-Turn ignition on (Just the ignition do not start the car)
2-With the Master switch, roll all 4 windows up all the way, hold the switch for 5 seconds.
3-Roll windows down all the way and hold switch for 5 seconds
4-Repeat step 2 remember to hold the switch for 5 seconds.
Immediately start the car.

Your top should operate again.

I'll post updates soon.

[car-nerd]

I fixed my top last night. I replaced the sensor that wraps around the hydraulic ram on the passenger side, VW part number 1Y0 959 985A. It was about $50 through the dealer and they had to order it. It took just under two hours to get at the part, replace it, put everything back together, and clean up.

For anyone looking to further diagnose the problem I found this post on VW Vortex very helpful:
VWVortex.com - 2004 Beetle Convertible Electric ROOF Horror Story

After borrowing a friend's Ross Tech VAG-Com I bought one of the 3rd-party units and downloaded VSDC-Lite for myself. While somewhat limited in functionality I was still able to get all of the sensor status data, which was confidence inspiring during the process. It was nice to be able to manually operate the old switch and see that the computer didn't recognize a status change but then plug in the new one and see that the status updated correctly.

Also, FWIW, resetting the system with the windows or via VAG-Com had no effect in my situation. It may be because I didn't fully drop the top to the point that the button went dead after I realized there was a problem.

[pencilneck]

Most issues with the top not working can be found in Measuring Block 001, field #3 and #4. Here is a link for how to read that info:

VW Beetle (1Y) Roof Electronics - Ross-Tech Wiki

[sb_beetle]

The relay switch that engages the flaps is located in the windshield frame on the passenger's side where the hook inserts to secure the top when closed. If you reach your pinky finger in and point it toward the driver's side you will feel a little metal flap. You can flip this little piece up and down. If your flaps don't want to function properly this is a good place to start as road grime tends to accumulate and foul the switch. Flip the switch a couple of times and spray it with electronics parts cleaner and cover it with dilectric grease using a cotton swab.