OK, I admit it, I'm a worry wart.

[missourimule]

Guess I get it from my mother (gotta blame someone.) In any event, in reading over the many threads here about the disasters of other New Bettle owners I wonder if I should keep the one I just bought or just sell it. I knew there was a reason I had been buying new cars for the past 25 years. I don't need the aggravation. I'm just too darned old.

Here I a new owner of a one-owner 2003 GLS that appears to be new inside and out. I'm going to have the timing belt replaced next week and I'll have about $6,200 in it. It has 78,700 miles on the clock. This is not my primary vehicle and was purchased only for the occasional times I would need something when my wife takes our new Kia. From what I have read here this model seems to have every conceivable problem known to mankind and everything costs an arm and a leg to repair. Some of this I can do myself; but some of this is impossible short of a computer to diagnose the problems.

Known problems already repaired: New tires, new battery, new alternator, new fuse box on top of the battery, new belt buckle. Seemingly runs fine, looks great, well equipped, but can I trust this car or will it suck money out of my wallet like a super charged vacuum cleaner?

Simply stated, even though I know of no issues, should I simply bite the bullet and sell it now, even taking a loss or take a chance that it won't self-destruct in the future?

And to think we sold our nearly new Hyundai Sonata two months ago because we didn't think we needed a second car. Lesson learned.

Thoughts?

[billymade]

Well, it comes down this; it seems to me... is the New Beetle: A. just transportation or B. a car you like (possibly "love"), and because of this... you are willing to put up with its potential "issues'.

Many of us here; have a passion and enjoy these cars; despite their faults. These are in many ways; typical European cars; good handling, fun to drive, unique styling, good performance, require attention, have their unique quirks, problems and the emotional "connection" that many of us enjoy! These are not the most trouble free automobiles out there; if you just want reliable transportation; get a honda civic/accord or Toyota corolla/camry. Both reliable; albeit boring cars... They, are of course; not perfect either (Toyota's recent spate of recalls and gov't investigations are testament to this as well); this just shows you, there are no "perfect" cars.... however, the degree of reliability and how this plays out in a "real world ownership", is always up for debate, owners on both sides of the fence will proudly tout their respective daily driver choices.

It seems I have been told that I have a "sense" of what these cars are all about; this thread... I kinda "laid it on the line": Anyone ever experienced this?

So, what is your "relationship" with this car? If you don't have much of a passion for it and just need something reliable to get from A to B.... maybe it isn't for you. On the other hand; if you like it, gives you joy to drive and have fun with the top down with your hair blowing in the wind... well, think it over. Again, fear... isn't necessarily a bad thing; once you enter into the new beetle "relationship" she might just steal your heart... and everything else that comes with it! If money and reliability, is the sole issue and primary fear; you might just dump her now! LOL! These cars can seduce! Look at all of us here on the org!

IF you decide to keep the car; you might consider: A. finding a reputable mechanic that works well with the VW's and you can TRUST (this is HUGE, a primary struggle for automobile owners everywhere) , B. buying a extended warranty to ward off any worries, fears... real or imagined, that you might run into with this car. Peace of mind.... priceless! Keep in mind; it seems to me; as time went on, the New Beetles' seemed to be more reliable and VW seemed to "work the bugs" out of them as the production years wore on.

IF you "jump in" and decide to keep her, fix things yourself... you will want to arm yourself with two weapons in troubleshooting/repairing the New Beetle: A. The Bentley eBahn software based service manual and the Ross Tech VCDS diagnostic software/cable/adapter package, to have full control of the electronic repair procedures ... plus, the org is here to help you in any way we can! Keep in mind; both the eBahn and VCDS are (in the case of the eBahn) the same as VW factory authorized service techs use and (in the case of VCDS) a "clone" of the same diagnostics software they use as well, in a pc/windows based environment. There is a learning curve to using both of these "tools" but you can do it! When you are armed with these twins of the VW troubleshooting world; the "horrors" of Volkswagen dealership service department high price "diagnostic fees" (anecdotal evidence seems to suggest $80 to $120 range, depending where you live); are largely things of the past.... as you can use these yourself to try to figure out what is going on. Parts on a whole; are not exactly "cheap" but I don't know of any car out there that whose parts really are; this is part of the nature of the modern automobile. One thing that can be the point of frustration for many; is the fail point of said parts, the potential amount of times they need to be swapped out. Classic examples would be: coil packs (1.8T, recall), window regulators (recall), drivers side belt buckle (airbag light on), battery fuse block, secondary air injection system components (air pump, egr valve, assorted hoses , etc.), temp. sensors, brake light switches (recall), window switches, center console latches and weak transmissions (auto valve body, recall), manual transmission, differential rivet failure and 6 speed shifter fork failure (02M 6 speed). Whew, didn't mean to scare ya there... just some "classics" I know of.

Lastly, far be it from me to break up a new budding romance! Just don't say we didn't warn you about her; once you fall in love, there maybe no turning back!

[Pushing Fifty]

This is my opinion: It's true what the last poster said: VWs are not perfect cars, but then again, the alleged stories you've probably heard are grossly exaggerated as well. All cars are quite expensive to repair these days, not just Volkswagens. In particular, VW has had a few electrical issues with power window regulators and coilpacks, but these problems were relatively minor to begin with and were for the most part resolved about 8 model years ago. The Honda/Toyota-biased media (especially Consumer Reports) blew these problems way out of proportion and scared many people away from VWs.

Also, JD Powers has done likewise, but their analysis is insignificant. If I remember, the auto industry "average" for first-year ownership is something like 107 problems per 100 cars. Even with VW near the bottom of this list at 131 problems per 100 cars, all this means is that statistically, a Volkwagen will be 24/100ths more likely to need something addressed than an "average" new car. In other words, out of 400 new Volkswagens that are sold, exactly ONE will have an additional issue. So what?

Moreover, JDP won't tell the readers just what these problems are, either. If a VW blows a couple of light bulbs and another brand only has one issue but it's a transmission failure, the publication will still say that VWs have twice as many problems!

I've also been figuratively hanged in effagy many times in the Car Lounge off the Vortex for saying this, but it is nevertheless true: Hondas, particularly Accords and Civics, have great mechanicals, but if you live anywhere in the north where salt is used on roads in the winter, the rear wheel wells in the quarter panels will begin to rust in as little as 2-3 years.

[pdoel]

Keep in mind, people tend to post about things if they have a lot of problems, not when they don't. So you aren't going to find many threads stating, "Another year of no problems!" But if someone has a lemon, you're going to hear about it.

What you're experiencing so far, are just normal wear and tear items. Not issues because the NB is some problematic vehicle.

I have a 2000 1.8t, and have had very few issues. Mainly just simple wear and tear items. It's been more trouble free than any other car I've owned. And I had a 2003 Toyota that was in the shop constantly.

To me, it seems silly to sell a car that you're not having any trouble with, just because of some stuff you read on the internet. In the long run, you're going to be spending more on getting a new car, than you would just keeping up with the one you have.

[vwgrl1999]

Well said, pdoel.
I have absolutely no complaints about my '99 2.0 w/128,000 miles. Normal preventative maintenance does a VW good. You have to be religious about changing/flushing fluids, replacing belts, etc. Do that and a VW will treat you well for many years/miles to come.
There is a reason there are still so many 30 year old (and older) VW's on the road...because they are well built machines that stand the test of time. (in addition to my NB, I also own an '87 Vanagon w/230,000 miles on the original engine! How many 24 year old Hondas or Toyotas do you see still on the road?)
I believe that you will find yourself falling in love w/your VW and it's ease of ownership. At least that's what I hope for you.

[missourimule]

Well, there are some other issues which concern me. First of all the local mechanic wants to delay working on the timing belt as next week is a holiday week and he doesn't rush his work. I asked him about the "stretch bolts" and whether he changes those and he said he didn't. This concerns me. He did say that he takes care to make sure the anti-freeze is filled up and "burped."

That's one problem. The other problem which concerns me greatly and put me over the top was this business about the o1m transmission. From what I gather this is a very costly proposition; several thousand dollars. The mechanic said no one locally will touch that transmission and referred me to a transmission shop in Tyler which evidently is a highly reputable shop. (I hope so.)

So for the amount of money I have in it right now $5,500 I could double the cost and still have an eight year old car (going on 9 years shortly) although it looks new, drives out fine and has no known issues AS OF THIS TIME.

So do I want the aggravation? There is no way in the world I can do transmission work and I doubt anyone else here could either. Ideally, it would be best if it had the five speed manual and it is conceivable that it could be converted if one had a "donor car." But without the lift and other tools and experience it would be near impossible to do it myself even if I had a brand new transmission and gear right at my feet. So that seems like a dead end.

From what I gather after reading about the transmission in it right now, the problem may have more to do with the circuit board behind the dash. Evidently the connections get bad over time which leads to the erratic problems. Anyone know about this?

The car is beautiful; never been wrecked, one owner, pampered and serviced but do I want to take on the project of a never ending money pit? One thing I know for certain is that this will be the last used car I will ever buy.

This is the article on the transmission.

"After about 10 years, the resistance in the wires and/or connectors grows. The additional resistance prevents the computer from reading the faint pulses from the transmission speed sensors. This causes the transmission to go to "fail safe" mode. This mode keeps the transmission in second gear and the gear indicator in the instrument panel indicates all gears are selected simultaneously."

Volkswagen 01M transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[missourimule]

On a more positive note, the new Motor Trend has photos of the inside and outside of the new new beetle and this one looks like a winner to me. If they can avoid all of the problems of the old new beetle it should be a rousing success. Very, very slick.

[pdoel]

So, you basically want to get rid of a car that runs great and has no known issues, because you're worried at some point it will?

You do realize that you have that risk no matter what car you're driving, right? You could dump this one, get another one, and most likely, find some info online somewhere about problems people have had with that car, and end up in the exact same spot as you are now.

If it were me, I'd quit worrying about nothing, and just enjoy the car you have now, that's running great, and not giving you any problems.

[billymade]

If you don't feel comfortable about your local mechanic; maybe try someone else or at least get a "second opinion" as they say when dealing with doctors. The stretch bolt issue; if you buy one of the "timing belt kits", come with new stretch bolts... problem solved, you will save money with the whole kits too! The car is working fine; enjoy it!

[missourimule]

Originally Posted by pdoel

So, you basically want to get rid of a car that runs great and has no known issues, because you're worried at some point it will?

You do realize that you have that risk no matter what car you're driving, right? You could dump this one, get another one, and most likely, find some info online somewhere about problems people have had with that car, and end up in the exact same spot as you are now.

If it were me, I'd quit worrying about nothing, and just enjoy the car you have now, that's running great, and not giving you any problems.

Obviously I can't quit worrying about the timing belt. I thought I had that lined up and now it has fallen through and with the stretch bolt issue wonder if I should even use this mechanic.

The question I have is whether I should put any money into the car thinking it could self-destruct any minute with all of these horror stories about the timing belt breaking once it exceeds 60K.

And if the transmission fails, and it has been described right here as "junk", the price jumps exponentially.

The truth is that cars today really can't be repaired by the typical owner. The average person, even one with substantial mechanical experience, can't even diagnose the problems. And in point of fact, many dealers still can't diagnose problems properly.

When I was a young person back in the 60's and 70's an engine could be taken apart right in the car or yanked out easily enough. It was very easy to figure out what needed fixing. It is impossible to diagnose most problems without a computer and then it spits out so many codes which may or may not identify the underlying problem.

Yeah, I worry.

[missourimule]

Originally Posted by billymade

If you don't feel comfortable about your local mechanic; maybe try someone else or at least get a "second opinion" as they say when dealing with doctors. The stretch bolt issue; if you buy one of the "timing belt kits", come with new stretch bolts... problem solved, you will save money with the whole kits too! The car is working fine; enjoy it!

I mentioned this to the mechanic and he said he disassembles the parts needing fixing and then orders the "German" parts that he relies on. I can tell you that mechanics tend to be insular and not amenable to being told how to do their job. (not unlike doctors) Evidently he hasn't had any come backs with this problem or at least any that I know of. I offered to purchase the kit but then he said he wouldn't guarantee his work, implying he wouldn't do the work.

If I knew of a good mechanic within a reasonable distance I would seek out a second opinion. If anyone knows of such a person near Palestine, Texas, I'm perfectly willing to see that person.

[billymade]

I say get the parts now; yourself and so when you enter into the "negotiation" that issue is already out of the way; the kits from mjm and others are high quality oem german parts... nuff said! Every mechanic has his mark ups on parts; so, I read his "no guarantee" as part of that or he wants control of the parts source for warranty purposes. For me; IF I was having someone else do the job, I want CONTROL of the quality of the parts I am putting into my car (its your car, your paying for the work, not him!)... and as you noticed, not everyone replaces everything like they should. Thus, the kits solve allot of problems: price, quality and "extras" like the stretch bolt get addressed. Get the parts; find someone you feel comfortable will do a good job and be done with it... enjoy the car and be at ease in your mind that you did the timing belt job before it could do major damage! This maybe less of a issue as time goes on if you establish a relationship with a vw tech that you trust and have all your work done by him; I just don't get the sense that you have that type of relationship with a mechanic in your area yet! TRUST is huge is the auto repair business and finding someone that you can... can be a real challenge! Get the job done and enjoy the wind blowing through your hair as you drive the cabrio with the top down!

[missourimule]

Originally Posted by billymade

I say get the parts now; yourself and so when you enter into the "negotiation" that issue is already out of the way; the kits from mjm and others are high quality oem german parts... nuff said! Every mechanic has his mark ups on parts; so, I read his "no guarantee" as part of that or he wants control of the parts source for warranty purposes. For me; IF I was having someone else do the job, I want CONTROL of the quality of the parts I am putting into my car (its your car, your paying for the work, not him!)... and as you noticed, not everyone replaces everything like they should. Thus, the kits solve allot of problems: price, quality and "extras" like the stretch bolt get addressed. Get the parts; find someone you feel comfortable will do a good job and be done with it... enjoy the car and be at ease in your mind that you did the timing belt job before it could do major damage! This maybe less of a issue as time goes on if you establish a relationship with a vw tech that you trust and have all your work done by him; I just don't get the sense that you have that type of relationship with a mechanic in your area yet! TRUST is huge is the auto repair business and finding someone that you can... can be a real challenge! Get the job done and enjoy the wind blowing through your hair as you drive the cabrio with the top down!

I don't have any doubt but that the parts are reliable and of good quality. To be honest, I haven't actually pressed the issue with him to see if he would do it. So you could rightfully say I don't have confidence at this point.

I keep going back to the job itself. I can't believe how difficult this job is for the layman. And if it weren't so blamed hot I would also be more inclined to tackle it. Virtually all of Texas is in a heat wave and drouth and just stepping outside the house is a chore in and of itself.

I wish I knew of another mechanic who has done a number of these procedures and I would certainly seek him out. At this point I don't know who that would be. The dealer where this car was originally purchased has quoted a price of $850 and I do have reasonable confidence in him and the service manager has been very forthcoming when I had to take my new Kia in for work even having one of his drivers take us down to our favorite restaurant while they diagnosed the problem. This is a joint Kia/VW dealership and from what I have seen of the shop area they know their business. I may talk to the dealership about this tomorrow and get a feel for this.