Questions about driving NBs in winter conditions

[Pushing Fifty]

I've had my 2000 NB since 2009, but I parked it in the garage the last two winters. Force of habit...I did this with my old air-cooled for obvious reasons. Anyway, I would really like to have a 2nd NB. My wife is doing everything in her power to convince me just to have one. Her latest ploy is telling me that Beetles are probably lousy in snow and ice. If I had 2 Beetles, I would have to drive one or the other in winter conditions. There's no way around it. I live in Wisconsin, and between Dec and April, roads can get pretty bad here. Are NBs any worse than any other car (such as my Passat) for getting around in snow and ice? The Passat handles well most of the time, even without "4-Motion." And who drives during a blizzard if they don't have to, anyway?

Also, on another thread in a different section of these forums, some people have said that if you have mudflaps installed on NBs, this will make them more vulnerable to rust. Is there any truth to that? I have dealer-installed mudflaps and not a speck of rust anywhere, but I've also never driven it in the winter!

[Fowvay]

Will mudflaps cause rust?

The mudflaps are plastic and are screwed into plastic. They deflect salt, gravel and debris from hitting the metal portions of the car but do seem to focus more debris onto the front of the rear fenders (which are also plastic). I can't see how this would cause rust.

Are New Beetles worse in snow than other Volkswagens/Cars?

With available traction control systems and ABS brakes run through a well balanced chassis I have found the opposite to be true. In fact I find the MKIV chassis to be VERY capable in winter conditions. With a small caveat that proper tires are mounted. With the stock Goodyear RS/A, Continetal and even the Michelins they are terrible in the snow but that is due to the crappy tires and not the car.

Will the New Beetle rust out from the salt?

Well yes and no. The chassis members such as the A-Arms, rear beam, rotors, tie-rods etc are not galvanized and will get a serious coating of rust but it shouldn't compromise their strength for many years. The body itself has an extraordinary amount of rust protection and even after 11 severe winters mine still cleans up perfectly without the first indication of rust even under the car.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by Pushing Fifty

...I did this with my old air-cooled for obvious reasons...

??? I grew up with an air-cooled in the family starting in 1960. The Bug was the car of choice of the family for getting around in the snow. With the weight in the rear and snow tires it was great.

Today's performance tires, which we all want on our 17" wheels, etc are not designed for inclement weather. If you don't want to use winter tires (thus owning two sets, or at leat a pair of snow tires for the drive wheels), you can go with an all season, but you sacrifice tire performance the rest of the year. www.tirerack.com has great charts for comparison and application of all the brands and TYPES of tires. It's not that the tires are CRAP, they are just not designed for certain uses. An issue with the Bug, and any small compact with wide performance or all season tires is weight. I have no problem with all-season tires on my larger heavy vehicles, needing neither high performance dry pavement tires nor special winter tires.

[janitz]

Originally Posted by Pushing Fifty

I've had my 2000 NB since 2009, but I parked it in the garage the last two winters. Force of habit...I did this with my old air-cooled for obvious reasons. Anyway, I would really like to have a 2nd NB. My wife is doing everything in her power to convince me just to have one. Her latest ploy is telling me that Beetles are probably lousy in snow and ice. If I had 2 Beetles, I would have to drive one or the other in winter conditions. There's no way around it. I live in Wisconsin, and between Dec and April, roads can get pretty bad here. Are NBs any worse than any other car (such as my Passat) for getting around in snow and ice? The Passat handles well most of the time, even without "4-Motion." And who drives during a blizzard if they don't have to, anyway?

Also, on another thread in a different section of these forums, some people have said that if you have mudflaps installed on NBs, this will make them more vulnerable to rust. Is there any truth to that? I have dealer-installed mudflaps and not a speck of rust anywhere, but I've also never driven it in the winter!

Canadian here!

Your winters in Wisconsin almost scare me, almost.

My 1998 New Beetle features nothing! Absolutely nothing in terms of traction control, ABS, just straight brakes on a front wheel drive.

I love driving it in the winter compared to other small cars. I don't know what it is but in other little cars I've always felt like I was driving a roller skate during winter while the Beetle felt well grounded. And that was 12 years of all season tires.

I put winter tires on the bug in October, and it is truly amazing how much of a difference having winter tires has on your driving through snow and over ice.

We got a small snow fall the other week, about 2 inches, but with heavy winds, so there was quite a bit of drifting and piling up of the snow, causing some road sections to be clear, others to have 5 or 6 inch deep drifts. I was passing other newer cars with all the fancy gadgets because my tires stuck to the road while they started drifting off. Love it!

Then it warmed up to above freezing during the day, below freezing at night, so that snow became water, then ice, and the pavement was a skating rink, at least for those people sporting all season tires. I drove along nice and easy, watching yahoos slide all over the place. Love it!

If your vehicle is older, I would suggest a bit of maintenance on the front coil and strut. Due to age, the mount is likely quite a bit flatter now, and your spring may not be as tight.

I replaced my entire front suspension, using coils with a heavier spring than the North American stock spring for the New Beetle. This along with new mounts has the effect of raising up the front end quite significantly over the age lowered condition the Beetle was experiencing.

I also replaced my rear springs, which brought my vehicle up on the back end.

You can even go further and install spacers to boost the height further, give yourself that "Baja" feel.

Volkswagen produces 10mm spacers for use in the front that I can find easily, Metalnerd has their own 1 and 2 inch spacers for both the front and back. The 10mm spacer isn't that huge a lift, but going to 1 and 2 inches may change the driving character of the car beyond what VW expected when designing the control arms and other components. Metalnerd makes you sign a waiver before selling you their spacers, so as the romans would say, buyer beware.

As far as rust is concerned, yes it is rusty down there. Any metal, even painted, has some rust showing up. Any bolt, screw, or nut attached to the suspension, brakes, control arm, etc, needs to be replaced if I remove it. When I did the struts, disconnecting the stabilizer link, the bolt through the control arm essentially had nothing left on its tip which was exposed. The Bentley manual says to replace it anyway, and on mine it had to be replaced for sure, no thread left on the first half inch. Check out your belly pan, make sure the main and two sides are in good condition, that will help a lot during the winter I'm sure.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

And you don't say, but I bet your "winters" are standard profile 16s! 17s and up are too wide v. weight to cut through the snow and slush.

[Pushing Fifty]

Originally Posted by MyOtherRidesAVette

??? I grew up with an air-cooled in the family starting in 1960. The Bug was the car of choice of the family for getting around in the snow. With the weight in the rear and snow tires it was great.

No heat....... And I was also referring to classic air-cooled owners today not wanting to drive these collectables in the winter.Unless they live somewhere like Florida.

[Pushing Fifty]

I will have to look at NB specs over the years and see when ABS came out, traction control, etc. because I really don't know. I would assume that the latest 2012 model has all the stuff.

My 2000 does have anti-lock brakes, and If I were to get another used NB, it would likely be one of the 06-10 models with the 2.5.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Pushing Fifty

I've had my 2000 NB since 2009, but I parked it in the garage the last two winters. Force of habit...I did this with my old air-cooled for obvious reasons. Anyway, I would really like to have a 2nd NB. My wife is doing everything in her power to convince me just to have one. Her latest ploy is telling me that Beetles are probably lousy in snow and ice. If I had 2 Beetles, I would have to drive one or the other in winter conditions. There's no way around it. I live in Wisconsin, and between Dec and April, roads can get pretty bad here. Are NBs any worse than any other car (such as my Passat) for getting around in snow and ice? The Passat handles well most of the time, even without "4-Motion." And who drives during a blizzard if they don't have to, anyway?

Also, on another thread in a different section of these forums, some people have said that if you have mudflaps installed on NBs, this will make them more vulnerable to rust. Is there any truth to that? I have dealer-installed mudflaps and not a speck of rust anywhere, but I've also never driven it in the winter!

My 2000 Beetle handles better in the snow than my wife's 2010 Chevy Impala. I just put my stock 16 inch wheels and all season tires on her between November and April and then run 18inch UHP tires and wheels in the summer. The beetle handles beautifully in the snow (with the right kind of tires.) Some people drive in their tall wheels and summer tires or bald tires all year round and then wonder why the heck they got in an accident. Just use common sense and I think the Beetle will handle as good if not better any any other car out there.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Pushing Fifty

I will have to look at NB specs over the years and see when ABS came out, traction control, etc. because I really don't know. I would assume that the latest 2012 model has all the stuff.

My 2000 does have anti-lock brakes, and If I were to get another used NB, it would likely be one of the 06-10 models with the 2.5.

The 2000 Beetle does have Traction control and Antilock Brakes.
It can be turned off by a button on your dash

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Pushing Fifty

No heat....... And I was also referring to classic air-cooled owners today not wanting to drive these collectables in the winter.Unless they live somewhere like Florida.

The heat in my 1967 Beetle worked just fine Well, after running the engine for a couple of hours. The worst thing was when it was really cold out there and most people scraped their windows on the outside I had to scrape my windows on the inside. Sometimes even while driving. No defroster to speak off.

[bug_dude]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

The heat in my 1967 Beetle worked just fine Well, after running the engine for a couple of hours. The worst thing was when it was really cold out there and most people scraped their windows on the outside I had to scrape my windows on the inside. Sometimes even while driving. No defroster to speak off.

I've had several vehicles over the years(1994 Tempo, 1968 F250, 1993 Acclaim) where I had to scrape the windows on the inside when it was really cold. That's never fun!! It's not that the defrosters didn't work, it's just that it was so cold outside that it took awhile for the defroster to kick in.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by bug_dude

I've had several vehicles over the years(1994 Tempo, 1968 F250, 1993 Acclaim) where I had to scrape the windows on the inside when it was really cold. That's never fun!! It's not that the defrosters didn't work, it's just that it was so cold outside that it took awhile for the defroster to kick in.

GM's defrosters automatically default to the recirculate setting. Many ppl don't know to run their defrosters this way, perhaps that was the problem, or perhaps it was just the branding...

[janitz]

Originally Posted by MyOtherRidesAVette

And you don't say, but I bet your "winters" are standard profile 16s! 17s and up are too wide v. weight to cut through the snow and slush.

Yes, 205/55R16.

With the condition of the roads here low profiles just seem like a bad idea. I've never considered anything but the stock wheel and tire size.

It is rare to see anyone here with low profiles or summer performance tires. Oddly the only two vehicles I see them on commonly are Miatas and Escalades.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by MyOtherRidesAVette

GM's defrosters automatically default to the recirculate setting. Many ppl don't know to run their defrosters this way, perhaps that was the problem, or perhaps it was just the branding...

Actually, on my wife's 2010 Impala you can't switch to the recirculate option when the switch is on defrost. I tried the other day and it wouldn't switch. The opposite is true when you have the A/C on HIGH or coolest setting then you can't switch to the outside air, only recirculate is available.

[MyOtherRidesAVette]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Actually, on my wife's 2010 Impala you can't switch to the recirculate option when the switch is on defrost. I tried the other day and it wouldn't switch. The opposite is true when you have the A/C on HIGH or coolest setting then you can't switch to the outside air, only recirculate is available.

I'd bet that if you read the manual it automatically goes to recirculate on defrost, defrosters don't work well if using outside humid air. It may not even say so in the manual anymore, been that way with GM for so long. I defrrost the other windows by running my heat through my a/c system which in effect does the same thing (dry air). Gm seems to go back and forth with the high setting on the a/c, I've had them where that was the case, and where you had a choice, never figured out why you shouldn't have a choice as the only purpose of the recirculate feature is to initially cool the car, with the windows cracked, or to shut off outside bad odors temporarily.