Looking to buy a new beetle.. 2.5L 5cyl vs 1.9L 4cyl TDI

[lovemoi]

Hi.
I am planning to buy a new beetle soon and I do not know which one I should get. I see that there are two different kinds: 2.5L 5cyl engine and 1.9L TDI 4cyl engine. I guess TDI engine gives more HP and such, but by thinking that the engine is Diesel, it makes me imagine those loud engine noises on Ford truck? Or is it a totally different concept of quiet diesel with new technology? And, I probably have to put diesel instead of unleaded gas, right?
Sorry about noob question..
I currently have an B6 A4, but I want to switch to a beetle. I like the power of turbo, but not the loud engine noise like Ford truck.. or smog..
Thanks

[blackonblack]

We really like our 2.5 Gas NBC. The engine has the same hp as our 03 1.8 turbo. Ours runs fine on Regular gas. It's very peppy.

I have also owned a TDI Jetta. The engine does makes some noise, but not the Ford truck noise you imagine. I felt it was rather quiet for a diesel. The way the TDI is designed makes it quieter and more powerful than some diesels of the past.
You will have to find an 06 though. No diesel for 07. Will return for 08. Plus=== great fuel economy.. Minus====stinky diesel fuel.

Choice is yours

[CoriBug]

I love my TDI, but I've never driven any other NB engine! The engine is quiet, just a purrrrr.

Advantages of TDI

--Great mileage - about 35-40 mpg at first, goes up as you go past 50K
--You can use Biodiesel, any blend from B5-B100. Better for the environment, the economy and the engine! Daisy gets Blue Sun
--Longevity - expect the TDI to last well past 200k. I'm hoping for 400k!
--Little noise, smell - Daisy is quiet and the only time I notice any kind of smell is when I start her up on a very cold morning and it doesn't last long

Cori

[kcfoxie]

The TDI is rather quiet, it IS a smoker if you run regular diesel w/out any additives. Bio-diesel blends reduce the black smoke (soot) output a lot, the soot usually only comes out at higher RPMs... from what I've seen depending on how well the engine is running and all... 4-5k (redline) will result is lots of smoke. Soot aside, they get 48MPG!! That's great, and you can run biofuels in them, another plus in many respects. I'd really say go for a TDI over a 2.5, just because the diesel will theoretically live longer than the 2.5 and will have a higher resell later for sure. The downsides:

2.5L is a chain-drive car, TDI is a belt-driven engine needing a replacement at 60,000 mile intervals (if I am wrong, someone correct me here)

The TDI will have a more frequent maint. schedule

Fuel "may" be harder to locate for the TDI depending on state

The TDI will always yield "you know you're pumping diesel, right?" remarks at truck stops.

Even with the "high upkeep" of a TDI, the mileage it gets per tank outweighs the maintenance cost. Also, the 2.5 is not a turbo and the 1.9 IS a turbo -- hence the strict maint. schedule. Overall, TDI owners generally LOVE their cars a lot and the mileage is just part. Contrary to most beliefs, the diesel engine burns more efficiently than internal combustion engines in most cases. The soot is mostly carbon, and VW is working hard to ensure that have some of the cleanest diesels out there -- hell all of germany is. The diesel engine was first reveled in 1920 by Dr Diesel (a german) at the World Fair, they love promoting their engines

[CoriBug]

The timing belt gets replaced at 100k for TDIs that are model year 2003 and newer, I think. It's 80k for 2002 and 60k for 2001 and older.

Cori

[kcfoxie]

It's a turbo, 60k -- I know TDI owners who have stretched 160k out of a single belt, but be safe, 60k. Always do the belt at least 20k sooner than suggested, it's just good practice. premature routine maint. in time saves nine times the cost in major repair later.

(I admit, my 2.0 belt looked great at 83k, my 98 2.0 with 102k on its second belt looks ok, but most turbos -- diesel and gas -- i have seen show much more wear and aging at these miles, and I think that is just a result of going with forced induction air)

[archiebug]

In the UK diesels are ten a penny, they are quiet, economical, not really smokey and the engines are usually good for around 150-200K (much like a petrol really). The 2.5 will be more refined and quieter, but nowhere near as economical. The 2.5 will be quicker (i'm assuming its a V5? Basically the same engine as the 2.3V5 in the UK just bored out differently). You have to remember whilst the engine may last 200K miles, I doubt the rest of the car will!

Ok to sum up:
2.5 = faster, more fun and quieter, rubbish on fuel economy, pollutes more.
TDI = Slower (but can be remapped to match the 2.5), much much more economical (even when remapped), less refined, and the engine is likely to last longer (although the 2.5 is a big engine so longevity wise i'd imagine they'd last around the same) personally i'd never keep a car once its past the 90K mark anyway. Bear in mind it has a Turbo so these are known to go between 50 & 100K

[kcfoxie]

the 2.5L US is inline, but that doesn't make a ton of difference.

[CoriBug]

Originally Posted by kcfoxie

It's a turbo, 60k -- I know TDI owners who have stretched 160k out of a single belt, but be safe, 60k. Always do the belt at least 20k sooner than suggested, it's just good practice. premature routine maint. in time saves nine times the cost in major repair later.

(I admit, my 2.0 belt looked great at 83k, my 98 2.0 with 102k on its second belt looks ok, but most turbos -- diesel and gas -- i have seen show much more wear and aging at these miles, and I think that is just a result of going with forced induction air)

The timing belt change depends on year, you can ask the Cheat about that. Gassers and diesels are different in almost every way, including the timing belt. Justin answered this question in another thread recently. I'll try to find it.

Cori

Here's what Justin said:

timing belts/water pumps. 60k on 1.8t cars, 80k on 2.0 cars, 40k for 98-01 auto tdi's, 60k for 98-01 manuals, 80k for 02 tdi's, and 100k for 03-up tdi's. they don't have proof, offer a minimum of $1k less. the dealer charges about $700-900 to do a belt/pump on these cars, you however, can find a local guru to do it cheaper. get this done if you don't have proof immediately after purchase. that way, it's back on a schedule.

[MarkIV]

You may not need to be concerned about purchasing a new TDI anymore. They're pretty much gone. No more to be made.

I had to go out of state to get my '06 NB TDI DSG Pkg2. It was nearly the last one at that time.

PS...Since I do all my own work, I am not afraid of a diesel. Comments such that diesels require more maintenance and tlc than a gasser are just flat wrong.

[kcfoxie]

We have 2007 TDIs here. They're still being made and sold, they may not be taking a hitaus from the production afterall. I heard the EPA worked out the sulfur issue and Mercedes is bringing out a new SUV in 2007 (when both VW and Mercedes claimed they'd not make any diesel models due to the EPAs lack of defining low-sulfur diesel standards for them to use their Common-Rail Diesels with) ... and even so, a used TDI is still a TDI. I'd have to buy out of state for the model I want, but I can locate *a* TDI without trouble. Er and infact, we don't have any 07 beetle TDIs, they're Jettas. But still you *can* get a TDI of some form

[kcfoxie]

Originally Posted by MarkIV

You may not need to be concerned about purchasing a new TDI anymore. They're pretty much gone. No more to be made.

I had to go out of state to get my '06 NB TDI DSG Pkg2. It was nearly the last one at that time.

PS...Since I do all my own work, I am not afraid of a diesel. Comments such that diesels require more maintenance and tlc than a gasser are just flat wrong.

Can you explain the water draining that's described in the service pamplet? Cause I don't fully grasp it, and I know I don't do this on my gasser.

That said, I wanted a TDI and wasn't enabled at the time to get one at the time. The next vehicle I purchase will be a TDI, but it may be a wagon of another german maker.

[ChristopherC]

Another issue to consider is cabin heat. A TDI does not warm up as quickly as a gasser. If you live where winter is a cold reality then the cost of a cold weather package should be factored into your calculations.

Make no mistake, a TDI works just fine in cold climates.

[kcfoxie]

They don't get warm when idleing I believe, thats why the cabin stays cold till you drive around and the temp light goes out.

[MarkIV]

Diesels don't make much heat just idling. They need to be driven to produce useful heat for the cabin.

On some of my trips to Minnesota in the dead of winter sub-zero temps, it is interesting to watch the engine temperature guage drop while sitting still at idle waiting for a long train to pass.

The "bun warmers" are very nice.

As for water draining mentioned above, I presume you are concerned with the water collected in the fuel filter. It is a simple matter to loosen the fuel filter band, lift the filter up a bit, place a cup of some sort under the filter, gently loosen the drain knob, drain a few ounces, gently close the drain knob, remove cup of spent fuel, lower fuel filter to original position, tighten the filter band. Done. I've never seen more than a few BB's of water in the drained fuel.

[kcfoxie]

aaahh thanks! I've wondered about it, and no one has told me what you had to do to drain it. That's really simple, no wonder it's a 10,000 mile service interval

I can't believe that the car's temp will drop at idle, that's so weird... I gotta get a tdi so i can be a part of the cool crowd (no pun intended)!