How do you know when to change the pump/belt

[joelfolg]

I have heard many many many times that the timing belt and water pump NEED to be changed at some point on these NB. I also have heard it can get quite expensive. My question is how do you know when it is NEEDED to be done? I don't have much money, and I am saving. But I don't want to get it done prematurely, if I can avoid it. Thanks guys

[alg]

Some of the details may be based on the motor you have.
If you check the 2.0 discussion forum you will see that people have found bad waterpumps before 100,000 miles.
On the 2.0 engine if a chunk of the plastic waterpump impeller breaks off, the top-end of the motor gets damaged.
The info from VW states that you should change the 2.0 timing belt at 60,000 miles.

The consensus on the 2.0 motor seems to be that you should change the timing belt and waterpump at 50,000 miles and replace the waterpump with a model that DOES NOT have a plastic impeller.
After the initial change, you should still inspect/replace the timing belt every 50,000 miles.
The waterpump with the metal impeller will no longer be an issue, and it would only need replacing when it fails (it leaks when it fails, so you know).

If you do not have a 2.0 motor, check out the forum for your motor to see what others have done. I know that almost all the beetle motors have the plastic impeller, even the Turbos.

You can get this kit from ECS Tuning that contains everything for this service, including the coolant, bolts, metal waterpump, timing belt and tensioner. The kit is just under $200 and you can do the work in about 6-8 hours if you know a little about working on cars.

Note that if you take the car somewhere to have the service done you have to tell them to replace the waterpump when they replace the timing belt.
Also, if you go somewhere for service they will probably end up with a waterpump that has a plastic impeller, as this is what VW and a number of the aftermarket part suppliers have.

[MichelleRoze]

Looks like you have a 1.8T.

I have heard that those need to be changed right around 80,000. And quite promptly too.

And the same is true for all beetles about the plastic impeller. This is a good kit for a 1.8T timing belt/water pump change. You'll want to change, belt, pump, tensioners, bolts, pullies, everything! Plus new coolant! VW coolant, the pink stuff!

Average price, from what I've heard is $700 (parts and labor), now I have a TDI which I think is a little more expensive....so I think the 1.8T might be cheaper than that.

Here are some trusted mechanics and shops from the TDI club. A lot of these guys will work on gassers as well.

Oregon

Justin Grow - a.k.a. Oldpoopie
SE Portland, OR 97202
http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=5182

Hillside Imports:
4402 SW Beaverton Hillsdale
Portland, OR 97221
(503) 293-0146
http://www.hillsideimports.com/

Esquire Motors Inc.
1853 SW Jefferson
Portland, OR 97201
(503) 226-6269
esquire@esquiremotors.com
http://www.esquiremotors.com

Springfield German Import
3520 Olympic St
Springfield, OR. 97748
(541) 741-1842

AARON'S AUTOWERKS
301 N Phoenix Rd
Medford, OR 97504
(541) 535-1355
aaronsautowerks@charter.net
VW TDI'S, AUDI'S AND SUBARUS TOO!

Diesel Fuel Injection Service
9822 Vancouver Way
Portland, OR 97211
Tel: (503) 235-1947
Toll Free: (888) 285-1213
Fax: (503) 285-1213

TDI Specialist
7104 N Lombard
Portland, OR 97203
(503) 975 5512 Marcell Campbell

Fix-Um Haus
7104 N Lombard St
Portland, OR 97203
(503) 286-0903

[Smileybug]

How many miles are on your car? From your info, it seems you have a 1.8T. Its much more crucial to get the pump and belt changed out earlier vs on something like the 2.0. Much more damage can be done if the belt snaps.

60-80k is the recommended range for belt changes. And I think the 1.8T maintenance schedule actually calls for belt replacement at 60k or 80k. The 2.0 doesn't have a schedule for replacement, but I'm almost positive that the 1.8T does.

Here is an extensive write-up on timing belt replacement. It is made for the 2.0 but it is still a good resource. timing belt intervals...everything you needed or wanted to know inside...

Changing the belt and pump early is certainly not a bad thing. I would also find a local VW shop vs going to the dealer. You'll likely find it costs much less that way. Cost me $450 for the service (plus, serpentine belt change, oil change, and a new air filter and dipstick) on my 2.0 at a local shop. Dealer wanted twice that.

Don't forget, it will cost you more to fix things that are broken if the belt or pump goes than if you just replace them before any damage is done!

[D2Beetle]

This thread may be of assistance.

Oops... sorry Smileybug did not read your post.

[joelfolg]

Wow guys, thanks for all the info!! How long does it take to have done? I live in Astoria Oregon. Going to Portland wouldn't be too much of a problem if I could do it in one day, on a Saturday or something.

[Smileybug]

Depends really I guess. The shop I had do it, had all the work done in a few hours. But they do them pretty often.

How many miles are on your car?

[MichelleRoze]

I dropped mine off the night before because I couldn't get there before they closed and I needed other transportation for the next day. They started and finished the car the same day. I think they started asap and they were finished by 2pm or 3pm. So probably a couple hours. Depending on how experienced they are at doing TB changes on bugs (which the bumper is not required to come off to do the change....trust me, I'm sure you'll hear that!)

[joelfolg]

I have 87,000. I had one place say it was 865 parts and labor. The first one on your list you gave me i think. And then I had somebody look it up and they said it was not due until like 106,000. Anybody know where I can get it done cheaper? I live in Astoria or, but probably will have to travel to Portland area.

[from Margaritaville...]

beyond the mileage milestones, the Bentley manual ALSO suggests using 5 years as a guide because the belt ages due to age (as tires do)...

[joelfolg]

thats an expensive repair every five years

[D2Beetle]

Actually it is not bad if your a DIY'er.

[joelfolg]

Originally Posted by D2Beetle

Actually it is not bad if your a DIY'er.

I just might have to become one
I need to get my hands on a repair Manuel! I just know absolutely NOTHING about cars, let alone I hear VW's are hard to work on.

[Smileybug]

Get yourself a Bentley manual. Even if you aren't going to do big services like this, its great for smaller things. I've used it several times. Its a great resource to have!

[joelfolg]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

Get yourself a Bentley manual. Even if you aren't going to do big services like this, its great for smaller things. I've used it several times. Its a great resource to have!

OUCH!! That is an expensive manuel! What about this one?

Amazon.com: VW New Beetle 1998 thru 2005 (Haynes Repair Manual) (9781563926839): Ken Freund: Books

I have heard good things about Haynes.

[MichelleRoze]

Haynes is good, but it won't get you through everything like the Bentley will. I still have yet to get myself a Bentley but I do want one.

I hate to say it, but VW's aren't cheap. Most repairs are costly if you have someone else do it, and especially the beetle. There is a "PITA" tax that mechanics like to charge, because they know the body of the car doesn't allow for super easy repairs, they will charge extra because it's "harder". And you'll hear them say "this is the car you have to take the bumper off to do....." I think unless you go to a diehard VW mechanic that loves these cars and charges fairly (which most of the people on the list I gave you should) there will be that extra cost.

But really, an $800 timing belt change is much cheaper than a brand new engine when the belt breaks! It's just something you have to budget for. If you can, wait until tax return time, that's when I did mine. I don't normally have $800 sitting around waiting to be used, so my tax return was the perfect time to get it done. But definately go by mileage, and if you don't hit that mileage in 5 years, then do it anyway. I think I paid $740 (that included a discount for using cash, it was like $780), and mine was not done right. They either mixed or reused my coolant and I don't think the tensioner bolts were replaced, and I got a remanufactured waterpump (I'm not sure if it has plastic impellers or metal) I would pay the $800 to make sure it was done right, then you'd have a 100K belt and not have to worry about it for awhile.

[Smileybug]

Yeah. Haynes is ok, but the Bentley gives much more detail and covers much more. Its a really great book and really can help you do alot of DIY things. Its an investment, and a good one if you own a VW. You can probably find a used one too. Check eBay or even the FS threads here and other VW sites (like VWVortex). They have a CD version, but I prefer the book. That way you can have it with you when you are working and can put it anywhere during a repair vs. needing a laptop and worrying about getting it dirty when you are elbow deep in the engine bay!

Michelle also brings up good points. Its much cheaper to do the preventative maintenance than to put it off and have something break and need a new engine. I put it off until 77k and the entire time from about 70k until I had it done, I was just crossing my fingers that it would make it that long. I had no reason to believe that it was on its way out, but I had heard of water pumps failing around that mileage. The only option I had when I was living in MD was the dealer and I wasn't paying $900 for it. Once I moved to NC and found an awesome local shop, I saved up and had it done ASAP. Its very important to do.

[DZLBUG]

Originally Posted by joelfolg

OUCH!! That is an expensive manuel! What about this one?

Amazon.com: VW New Beetle 1998 thru 2005 (Haynes Repair Manual) (9781563926839): Ken Freund: Books

I have heard good things about Haynes.

Haynes manuals are junk and not worth the paper they are written on. Very little detail and lots of incorrect information, particularly on VW's.

Get a Bentley manual if you intend to do your own work. Amazon has them for $80 or less.

[D2Beetle]

Originally Posted by joelfolg

OUCH!! That is an expensive manuel! What about this one?

Amazon.com: VW New Beetle 1998 thru 2005 (Haynes Repair Manual) (9781563926839): Ken Freund: Books

I have heard good things about Haynes.

Trust me, if you plan on being a DIY'er, the Hanyes manual falls short; Bentley is the only way to go.

[The Cheat]

i keep my haynes in the car, the bentley in the garage.

the haynes has saved my ass more than once, it's not junk, but the bentley is a better setup. it's also bulky and not really something you'd want to keep in the car.