Concerned about the heater core,blower system.

[DavidBauder]

How long does it usually take for your beetle to get to "more than comfortable" heat coming out of the air vents after you start and drive it off in about 35-40 degree farenheit weather? Mine will take at least 20 min or so and even then it's still just warm, not HOT. My accord is like 5 min. This doesn't seem right. My coolant is full and recently flushed. The heater core hoses in and out of the core are extremely hot the touch. Yet it still blows only 120 degree farenheit air? Hmm...something is amiss somewhere.

Any ideas?

I wanted to get to the airbox...any suggestisons where i should start on that? Behind the glovebox?

thanks!

[fohveh]

My 2002 heats in very cold weather below what you mentioned in about four or five minutes so something is wrong with yours if it takes that long unless mine is uncommon which I doubt. The core sounds like it is not getting enough coolant flow through it. Buildup of some sort clogging it or the switch is faulty. The blower is behind the glove box so you need to remove it to access it. Let us know what you find out checking the fanunit behind the glovebox.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by fohveh

My 2002 heats in very cold weather below what you mentioned in about four or five minutes so something is wrong with yours if it takes that long unless mine is uncommon which I doubt. The core sounds like it is not getting enough coolant flow through it. Buildup of some sort clogging it or the switch is faulty. The blower is behind the glove box so you need to remove it to access it. Let us know what you find out checking the fanunit behind the glovebox.

ok..great. i'll do the dirty and go for it later, maybe tomorrow afternoon. i spent all day today messing with audio and sealing leaks in the hatch. the more i work on this car the more I like it, it's no accord but I just love working on cars when i'm motivated.

it was bought for my gf, i have a month before she arrives and by then i need to have as much stuff done with it as possible.

question about the heater core itself. i see the actual core hoses going into the firewall on the drivers side....are u sure the airbox/blower motor/heater core is on the passenger side? i do see the evaporator core going into the firewall on the passenger side, so it looks like a long drawn out airbox. i'm used to them being compact like in my accord where i had to change the evaporator core(was a bitch of a job btw). i hope it's not clogged. I'm hoping some debris is just collected on it preventing heat exchange. the blow motor is blowing hard and fast, so it's not that.

thanks for the info!

[jailor8]

I'll bet your royally screwed like me. I have a 2000 and the air don't get warm at all, well some. Plus you can't control where it comes out at. If everything you say is right, I'd bet the farm that the foam has come off the blend doors in the heater box. Insert multiple cuss words here!!!!!!! If so and your heater control cables are hooked up, then you will have to remove the entire dash to get down to the box to get to the doors to either replace them or do the "foamies" craft material repair. I'm about 3 hours or 1000 screws into this job RIGHT NOW. Get a good book and see what this takes to do it. Not for the timid and forgetful.

I'll advise and post a DIY on here with photos and tips.

Jailor8

[Smileybug]

What color is the coolant in your coolant reservoir?

[jailor8]

FYI Peak makes a green coolant that mixes with everything. Pour it in it works fine.

Jailor8

[Smileybug]

I personally wouldn't trust the universal coolants. I would stick with the G12 or flush everything and run generic coolant. I wouldn't mix. I have heard that some of the universals work ok (have also heard that some do not) with the VW coolants, but I still wouldn't risk it.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

What color is the coolant in your coolant reservoir?

it's a clear squeeky clean...i flushed it recently and before that it was also clear nice green.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

I personally wouldn't trust the universal coolants. I would stick with the G12 or flush everything and run generic coolant. I wouldn't mix. I have heard that some of the universals work ok (have also heard that some do not) with the VW coolants, but I still wouldn't risk it.

i've used auto parts shops branded coolant for years..never had issues.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by jailor8

I'll bet your royally screwed like me. I have a 2000 and the air don't get warm at all, well some. Plus you can't control where it comes out at. If everything you say is right, I'd bet the farm that the foam has come off the blend doors in the heater box. Insert multiple cuss words here!!!!!!! If so and your heater control cables are hooked up, then you will have to remove the entire dash to get down to the box to get to the doors to either replace them or do the "foamies" craft material repair. I'm about 3 hours or 1000 screws into this job RIGHT NOW. Get a good book and see what this takes to do it. Not for the timid and forgetful.

I'll advise and post a DIY on here with photos and tips.

Jailor8

eh...i cringed when i read that. i do have piece of foam and plastic coming out of the vents at an alarming rate. what u think? same issue huh?

[Smileybug]

Originally Posted by DavidBauder

i've used auto parts shops branded coolant for years..never had issues.

The VW coolant (G12) doesn't play well with others. If you mix coolants with G12, it will get brown and sludge up, which can cause blockages in the cooling system. You really should be using the G12 in your car, as it works best in these cars. But as long as you have flushed it all and not mixed, you should be ok.

G12 coolant is pink by the way.

[jailor8]

David

I just quit for the night, I can now see my blend doors without doing yoga. Meaning I'm now down to where I'm ready to remove the cross brace from the car. My doors have shed ALL their foam. So cleanly that, you can not even tell anything at all was on them. I did find a few pieces here and there in the duct work. I'll just wipe them down with some brake cleaner and some alcohol, apply weather strip adhesive, glue on my new pieces and put it back together.

If you do this, go slow and watch for brittle plastic tabs.

Following advice from on here, I first was almost sure the impellor was off the water pump, 58000 miles, so time for a timing belt anyway. So after I replaced a perfectly good water pump, I checked the thermostat. Perfect again. Found a missing o-ring in the port just forward of the temp sensor on the upper radiator hose. Figured it was drawing air on cool down, causing the system to vapor lock, Nope. Then I found the cables off of the 2 bottom blend doors. (this whole time I had a little heat, that went away when you drove and I could not control where it came out at) Put the cables on and gainned some control of where the air went but no more heat. Air bleeds out of the system very easily so the heater core lines heat up evenly. But I flushed it anyway, caught all the fluid, no crud. So I pulled the under dash filler panels out and the center console around the shifter, and found that I could carefully squeeze the lower dash panel out the uncovers the lower floor duct. Then you can carefully un-snap and then twist and rotate the lower duct out the drivers side. Then take a light, push the drivers seat back, set the controls on full defrost, slide your head under the dash in front of the accelerator and you can see in past the defrost door, wiggle the controls and you should see the duct control door move. Bet it is shiny bare metal with holes in it. Why they made the doors with holes in them other than to save weight is beyond me. If the doors were solid the foam could fall off and it would still work. The temp door is made with a bend in it kinda like a "V" so it can control the air between the cold and the heater core.

On the vortec forums there is a guy who did the foamies thing on a GTI I think, has some pictures posted. The Beetle doors are not much different.

I took some photos tonight and will take more when I get to recovering the doors and putting it back together.

I have high hopes that I can find a way to get the doors out without pulling the whole heater box out if the car. If I could get my hands on both side of the doors I think I could fix them now. Maybe?????

You need a few special tools to do this also.


Jailor8

[jailor8]

Hey Smileybug I think the "what color is your coolant?" Question is you standard response to this commonly posted problem of "no heat".

Is there a personal experience you have had that causes you to say that?

YES mine started out pink/red. But I needed some, nearest dealer is 100 miles plus away and I'm cheap, So on the parts guys recomendation and me studying the label I bought the Peak that mixes with anything. I have over 300 miles on it and in that 300 miles I've drained it and put it back in 3 times. It always looks perfect. If it fails it will be Peaks problem for false claims of perforamance, not mine.

Hope you'll get back to me on this, we might both learn something, which in my opinon is exactly what the forum is for.

Jailor8

[Smileybug]

I haven't added other coolant to my car, so no its not personal experience. But it happens quite often that mixing coolants causes a lot of problems in VWs.

Here is the standard pic that gets tossed around here: Several threads on the subject too.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by jailor8

David

I just quit for the night, I can now see my blend doors without doing yoga. Meaning I'm now down to where I'm ready to remove the cross brace from the car. My doors have shed ALL their foam. So cleanly that, you can not even tell anything at all was on them. I did find a few pieces here and there in the duct work. I'll just wipe them down with some brake cleaner and some alcohol, apply weather strip adhesive, glue on my new pieces and put it back together.

If you do this, go slow and watch for brittle plastic tabs.

Following advice from on here, I first was almost sure the impellor was off the water pump, 58000 miles, so time for a timing belt anyway. So after I replaced a perfectly good water pump, I checked the thermostat. Perfect again. Found a missing o-ring in the port just forward of the temp sensor on the upper radiator hose. Figured it was drawing air on cool down, causing the system to vapor lock, Nope. Then I found the cables off of the 2 bottom blend doors. (this whole time I had a little heat, that went away when you drove and I could not control where it came out at) Put the cables on and gainned some control of where the air went but no more heat. Air bleeds out of the system very easily so the heater core lines heat up evenly. But I flushed it anyway, caught all the fluid, no crud. So I pulled the under dash filler panels out and the center console around the shifter, and found that I could carefully squeeze the lower dash panel out the uncovers the lower floor duct. Then you can carefully un-snap and then twist and rotate the lower duct out the drivers side. Then take a light, push the drivers seat back, set the controls on full defrost, slide your head under the dash in front of the accelerator and you can see in past the defrost door, wiggle the controls and you should see the duct control door move. Bet it is shiny bare metal with holes in it. Why they made the doors with holes in them other than to save weight is beyond me. If the doors were solid the foam could fall off and it would still work. The temp door is made with a bend in it kinda like a "V" so it can control the air between the cold and the heater core.

On the vortec forums there is a guy who did the foamies thing on a GTI I think, has some pictures posted. The Beetle doors are not much different.

I took some photos tonight and will take more when I get to recovering the doors and putting it back together.

I have high hopes that I can find a way to get the doors out without pulling the whole heater box out if the car. If I could get my hands on both side of the doors I think I could fix them now. Maybe?????

You need a few special tools to do this also.


Jailor8

GREAT info there! I hope to see what's going on in my system soon. I do however have an optical spy tube thing at work with about 4 or 5 food shaft on it. I can look into one end and it "sees" what the other end sees, light on the end too. I play on "peeking" into my air system to see WTF is going on in there. I'm curious if I'll see what you are experiencing, I think i will! judging by the foam debris that is exisitng my system. What a failure at manufacturing! No car manufacture can be perfect though, oh well. I have to fix this for the girl, so it's worth it.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

The VW coolant (G12) doesn't play well with others. If you mix coolants with G12, it will get brown and sludge up, which can cause blockages in the cooling system. You really should be using the G12 in your car, as it works best in these cars. But as long as you have flushed it all and not mixed, you should be ok.

G12 coolant is pink by the way.

thanks for the info on the official g12 coolant. I don't know much about it but i bet that a lot of peoples so called "gunk" is just caused from poor maintenance and 10 year old coolant in a car, but I could be wrong. I don't see why vw could make a coolant that doesn't mix well with others, I guess they want more business for their dealers in "radiator/coolent system clean/flushes". It's very possible as large corportations are very greedy.

Mine was green when I bought it, I changed the thermostat and nothing but green came out. I then put the thermostat gasket back in wrong and again, filled it with new green, so i'm pretty sure any trace of g12 is long long gone before me. I am almost 100% sure my heater core does NOT have a clog in it(this being proved by the extremely hot to the touch hoses(1 in and 1 out)of the heater core. If there was a blockage, one would be slightly warm instead of damn near scolding.

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

I haven't added other coolant to my car, so no its not personal experience. But it happens quite often that mixing coolants causes a lot of problems in VWs.

Here is the standard pic that gets tossed around here: Several threads on the subject too.

what is that a pic of anyway? can't really make it out.

[2004NBTURBOS]

That is the coolant tank, and the brown sludge that will show up after mixing the coolants. This sludge will end up in the thermostat, the water jackets, heater core, water pump, any where that the coolant circulates. You get the picture now?

[DavidBauder]

Originally Posted by 2004NBTURBOS

That is the coolant tank, and the brown sludge that will show up after mixing the coolants. This sludge will end up in the thermostat, the water jackets, heater core, water pump, any where that the coolant circulates. You get the picture now?

oh...good then. my coolant tank is clear and very clean at the bottom. I think i'm in good shape as far as that goes.

[jailor8]

My tank is clean also. And I don't really like cats anyway.

Jailor8