Engine rebuild due to improper installation advice needed

[MichelleRoze]

So most of you know by now that Probie is waiting for a new head and tbelt kit due to a timing belt failure. Well what happened, according to my mechanic, leads me to believe that my prior shop that did the tbelt job was negligent and should be held responsible. As it has been told to me, the tbelt tensioner was misinstalled. Meaning this tensioner was no where near where it should have been installed, causing stress to the tensioner and causing it to fail early. The tbelt job was done in May of '08 and the receipt says 1yr or 12k mile warranty on parts and labor. Now to me that would be fine and dandy had the job been done correctly. Considering the tensioner failed almost 20k miles early I think they should atleast be somewhat responsible since they didn't install it right. I know it's a long shot but anyone think that if I take proof to the shop to show them that the tensioner was installed wrong that they should be somewhat responsible for the current repair? Like I said, it's a long shot but they do say satisfaction guaranteed and had I had someone disassemble the car and check the tbelt work I may have caught this sooner. But these guys claim to be German car SPECIALISTS!!!!

[Opelmania]

I think you definitely have a leg to stand on here. I see 2 issues...
1) Proving it was misinstalled. Do you have pics?
2) They will have to do the work again and do you really want that? I would surely hope that if they agreed to do something, they would make sure they didn't screw it up again.

[Zann]

I think a small claims judge would think that if the mechanic was negligent why didn't it fail within 12,000 miles as the mechanic generously gave as a warranty.

20,000 miles is a long time for a mistake to take place...in the judge's eyes.

Take the case to Judge Judy...at least that way even if you lose the case the producers will still pay you as if you won. Win win.

[MichelleRoze]

Well I went to my mechanic today to take pictures. The tensioner was in the correct positon, what was misinstalled was the prong on the tensioner, there is an obvious hole where that prong on the tensioner belongs. And since they did the "mark and pray" method, we believe that they never removed the top roller, causing them to not see the hole that the tensioner needed to go into. I took pictures today and there is no mark to indicate that the tensioner moved, it was obviously placed there from the beginning. So, I took what pictures I could, trying to gather my evidence. My mechanic said, had he done the work, even 80k miles ago and realized he made that mistake, he would feel somewhat responsible for it snapping 20k early. But it's a shop so who knows, but it doesn't hurt to try anyway.... especially considering the coolant was the wrong color, the waterpump was rebuilt and it was invoiced incorrectly anyway...that shop has major issues...

[Zann]

It wasnt Imports Only was it?

[Oldbugman]

Personally Yes if I had done the work and realized I screwed it up yes I would probably take responsibilty and fix it.

Would I do this 2 years 80,000 miles past the install date? NO and neither will the shop you took it too.

I seriously doubt any judge would rule in your favor either. The work lasted thru the warranty period provided by the shop.

Long shot yes, more likely a waste of time, but if you feel it's something you must do then good luck.

I know times are tough and you need your car fixed but really, your grasping at straws here.


And I like this statement.

"My mechanic said, had he done the work, even 80k miles ago and realized he made that mistake, he would feel somewhat responsible for it snapping 20k early."

He doesnt say he would be willing to fix it for free does He? He only stated he would feel responsible for it failing early.
According to what you stated.

[MichelleRoze]

Yes, sorry was trying to quick post earlier. My mechanic said he would feel responsible to cover some costs, not all but some.
This shop is called Wolfgang's in Duluth, Georgia.

Like I said it's a long shot but I can atleast try.

[marvins_dad]

Wow, tough break (no pun intended) - sorry to hear. No legal advice here, but that stinks. I researched the guy that changed mine and knew that he had done ton of TDI timing belts, even had it done on the same day as 2 or 4 other TDIs with TDI folks hanging out watching.

[MichelleRoze]

Yeah by the end of this year it'll be like I have a whole new car.

Suspension in April
5 speed swap in June
Now tbelt/cam/lifters/etc in December

Plus my mechanic said it looked like my turbo was starting to wear due to extra oil in the intercooler hoses or something like that. So he said he would give me his old turbo if he felt it was in any better condition then the one I have....ugh this has been a tough year....

[Growler]

Just because there is some oil in the lower hoses doesn't mean that your turbo is bad.

are we talking a cup or more of oil? has it been opened up any other time since the timing belt install 80k miles ago?

iirc you do drive the car hard and not like a little old lady.

if you do drive it hard, and we are talking about a large amount of oil (not just a few oz, more like a cup+) then yes, have the turbo inspected for side to side and in & out play on the turbine wheels.

all of these turbos throw some oil into the intercooler piping. the more time you spend at low boost levels, the more oil has a chance to build up.

if you are driving it hard regularly, and giving it a good thrashing for a while and hearing no ugly turbo noises, and its still putting a lot of oil into the pipes, then perhaps your turbo is going bad. or the oil seals are wearing out.

I would err on the side of caution and make DARN sure that the turbo has shaft play (meaning worn out bearings/seals) before I replaced it.

do you have a boost gage? or have access to VCDS? have you logged your boost to see how your turbo is performing anytime recently?

Is Tony on the recommended mechs list on tdiclub (I assume he is)? what is his screen name?

[MichelleRoze]

Yeah I have been driving it rough, but still a little on the light side since I knew the tbelt job was getting close. And Troy said there was a good amount of oil in there which was unusual. But he said when he takes the engine apart he'll take a look at the turbo and see if it's wearing. If his old one is in any better condition than mine, he said he would clean it out and install it for me. Giving me a little more time before a new turbo is needed.

His TDIclub screen name is TNTKNC. He actually cleaned out my turbo and intake last year or two years ago, I can't remember. He's a good guy. And he knew instantly when he saw the tensioner that something was wrong. I have my pictures just not with me at this time. I will load them when I get a chance so you can see what's the issue. But the little metal prong that's supposed to go into the hole under the top roller...didn't end up going in that hole. :rollseyes: Like I said, kinda hard to explain unless you know what I'm talking about, so I will post pictures when I get them loaded.

[Growler]

I know what you are talking about with the tang not in place. it happens when you arent paying attention as you slip the belt onto the rollers, or if the nut isnt on the stud ehn you do that. allows the tensioner to slide out of place a touch and the tang could wind up anywhere in the rotation... ugh. I always chack to make sure its in place.

troy will be able to take care of you. he is good people from what I read from him.

[MichelleRoze]

Yup, after the car broke down, I prayed and prayed that it was something simple.....

...guess I should have been a little more specific.....

But I'm glad it's in Troy's hands. I should have had him do it the first time, but I was new to TDI and I really wanted this car to be a "dealer maintained" car. Then I saw the prices. Then I thought well I take him to special German/European shops.....well darn, found out the shade tree mechanics are much more reliable, diligent, and normally cheaper than most shops....

Live and Learn I guess...

[MichelleRoze]

Well, tried to talk to the shop owner. He won't cover the repair. Though he said if I bring the car to him, he'll only charge me $1500 for a tbelt repair...cause he won't replace the head...just the valves that MIGHT need fixing. He is under the impression that a tbelt tensioner CAN be placed in different locations and still be correct. He said, if it would have been an incorrect placement, the tbelt shouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Which I agree, but obviously it DID last that long. Depending on how much damage to the head their is, we might go back and try again. But he specifically said, go ahead and sue if you want, we do not give money back.

So, Matt and I came up with the idea to make a "Blacklisted Mechanics" site. Since I've been having so many issues with so many different shops, for so many different things, it's getting hard to keep track. Plus I don't want anyone else getting screwed over by these guys. This isn't the only issue I've had with them sadly, they did a few other repairs before I decided I was done with them, and now I'm REALLY done with them. I will post pictures of the tensioner in a little bit.

Troy should be working on the car sometime this week. I'm curious to see how much head damage their really is.... especially cause I cranked it so many times after it died not knowing it was a tbelt issue

[MichelleRoze]

Ok, so here are the photos. This is what Troy found when took off the tbelt cover...


closer look, you can see the tbelt tensioner tab.


That's not where it's supposed to be. The little black hole to the left of the tensioner is where that silver tab SHOULD be...


How it held tension we'll never know. I guess the bolt was tight enough. Wolfgang's seems to think that the groove in the plastic is an "alternative" location for the tbelt tensioner....yeah ok....

We've decided that because they used the "mark and pray" method, they never removed the top roller. In doing so, they never saw the hole that the tensioner prong should have gone into. And since there was no scratch marks on the plastic, that means that it never moved, in the 80k miles it was driven. Wolfgang's placed the tensioner there, and assumed it was correct...

Along with reusing my coolant and mixing it with probably green coolant, invoicing me incorrectly for a 1.8T tbelt, and giving me a remanufactured water pump....and now this...

Troy also said my cam shaft seal was leaking, which also leads us to assume they never moved the top roller....smh....

[rsaludaga11]

Anyway, my plan is to pull the vw engine rebuild kits and tranny to rebuild the engine. I got the Bentley manual and a few parts sources. Should be fun. I'll post some pictures of the progress.

[rsaludaga11]

When you replace the timing belt on these engine rebuild kits, you also have to replace a bunch of other stuff too. And you have to have the correct, specialized tools to lock the cam and whatnot. And you have to set the timing using the computer, not with paint marks!