Getting worried about purchase

[Ylello]

Hey everyone,
Let's start with the positives.. I love this beetle. It is the best car I have ever driven and that's saying something since I have been a die-hard Jeep girl.

Here's the situation. Had her checked out by our very trusted foreign car guy. When I bought her the owned said she had check engine issues for the life of the car but they never found anything specifically causing the issue. Service records show all work completed at VW shop, and check engine was cleared a few times. She said its always ran great, but whenever she got fuel it always went on.

When I got fuel, sure enough it went on. Mechanic is also an NJ Inspection Agency. He cleared the code and said to drive around a couple days before he would do the emission and give me a good sticker.

Well... Got gas today and was feeling good because light stayed off. Now it's on again.

I am afraid I just wasted my money, because if I can't get a passed inspection sticker, it's going to sit in the driveway. I certainly can't sell it to anyone, and while I could drive around with no sticker, I'll be looking at tickets and possibly it being impounded by some cops.

Please suggest some things my mechanic can check. He did not tell me what the codes were but I will ask him tomorrow.

Beyond this issue, he was very happy with the car, and said its in great shape for the year.

To update, it's a 2001 GLS 2.0 gas, 5 speed, 83,000 miles. He just put in a new timing belt and shocks in rear.

Thank you for your help. If anyone is in the Central NJ area and can suggest or wants to help diagnose this please do. We just lost three vehicles to Sandy, and I can't afford to lose this one too.

[pencilneck]

First off, without seeing what the actual DTCs are, EVERYONE who responds is offering a best guess (or wild @$$ guesses which seem to be a common issue here). So do not accept anything as fact, including my opinion on what it might be.

This could be a EVAP system issue, to which if that is the case, they tend to not be that bad to fix. It could be bad EVAP Purge Valve (N80) which is pretty basic stuff, but it could be that the gas tank itself might need to be replaced.

I would suggest you find someone with VCDS (or purchase a kit yourself) and see what the actual fault codes are. You want VAG fault codes, screw that crappy OBDII stuff. Once we know what the real fault codes are, then we can come up with a game plan on where to go next.

[Ylello]

Where can we buy the Vag reader? My father in law has a code reader but not sure if it's this specific kind. I guess this rules out stopping at Auto Zone to run codes huh?

[Smileybug]

Autozone is adequate. I'd start there.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Ylello

Hey everyone,
Let's start with the positives.. I love this beetle. It is the best car I have ever driven and that's saying something since I have been a die-hard Jeep girl.

Here's the situation. Had her checked out by our very trusted foreign car guy. When I bought her the owned said she had check engine issues for the life of the car but they never found anything specifically causing the issue. Service records show all work completed at VW shop, and check engine was cleared a few times. She said its always ran great, but whenever she got fuel it always went on.

When I got fuel, sure enough it went on. Mechanic is also an NJ Inspection Agency. He cleared the code and said to drive around a couple days before he would do the emission and give me a good sticker.

Well... Got gas today and was feeling good because light stayed off. Now it's on again.

I am afraid I just wasted my money, because if I can't get a passed inspection sticker, it's going to sit in the driveway. I certainly can't sell it to anyone, and while I could drive around with no sticker, I'll be looking at tickets and possibly it being impounded by some cops.

Please suggest some things my mechanic can check. He did not tell me what the codes were but I will ask him tomorrow.

Beyond this issue, he was very happy with the car, and said its in great shape for the year.

To update, it's a 2001 GLS 2.0 gas, 5 speed, 83,000 miles. He just put in a new timing belt and shocks in rear.

Thank you for your help. If anyone is in the Central NJ area and can suggest or wants to help diagnose this please do. We just lost three vehicles to Sandy, and I can't afford to lose this one too.

There is always an issue if the Check engine light is on. Don't let anyone tell you that this is a normal thing. It isn't. Have you scanned the car for codes? If not go to Autozone and have them scan it to see which code comes up.
Actually your mechanic should have been able to do that.
Post the codes here to see what they are. There could be multiple codes and reasons which may need your attention.
Could be as simple as a new Coolant Temp Sensor which is less than 10 bucks. But we will never know unless we know the codes.

Also when they swapped out the timing belt did they also replace the water pump and tensioner as well as the accessory belt? If not you may be looking to do the same thing over again fairly soon. The original water pump in those old Beetle's is plastic. Well, the inside of it is. (Impellars) they have known to break and that means your cooling system fails. That could be also a reason for your code. Not only that but if the tensioner freezes or the waterpump shaft seizes than your timing belt will lock up and skip several teeth which is pretty much the same results as the timing belt breaking and then you are looking for several thousand dollars in engine repairs. If the timing belt, water pump, tensioner and accessory belt were all changed than you are in good shape for about another 80k miles or 6 years whatever comes first.

Please scan the car for the codes and let us know what they are. Good Luck to you.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Ylello

Where can we buy the Vag reader? My father in law has a code reader but not sure if it's this specific kind. I guess this rules out stopping at Auto Zone to run codes huh?

WHY? A vag com isn't the Holy Grail. A basic OBDII scanner will do just fine. Go to Autozone and get it scanned.

Here is a link to a basic scanner which does include VAG codes as well as OBDII codes in case you are interested.

Amazon.com: Hot MaxScan VAG405 Code Reader OBD2 EOBD CAN BUS VW Audi: Car Electronics

[mswebb]

Thanks for that link. My bug is in the local shop (generic garage, only local option) getting tested for a check engine light that popped on yesterday. They're charging me $95 just to run the diagnostic.

I've ordered my own scanner from that link and will at least be able to check on future issues myself.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

[Ylello]

Tom, you and I have gone back and forth on this on the welcome new members thread.

The water pump was replaced and it is the upgraded model. I don't see the need to replace it again, unless it was another plastic one which my mechanic said it is not. I purposefully had him check that.

I have no doubt my mechanic knows the code(s) that came up, he just did not tell me what they were because I did not ask...my mistake. . All he said was he wanted me to drive the car a bit to see if the light came back on and if so he was going to do some other tests. I am taking it back to him tomorrow so he can check the codes again and I will let you know what they are when I know myself. He is a very ethical guy so I can say there will be no chance of a good inspection sticker until whatever is causing the coding is fixed. That is what scares me. I got a little money back on our flooded vehicles, but I don't have a ton of it to throw into this one. I anticipated spending about another 1000.00 and since I only paid 2500.00 for it, I felt comfortable putting another 1000 into it right now. More than that is going to make things tough as we have other repairs and expenses post Sandy.

I trust the person I bought it from, she has been very forthcoming with all info on the car, and the service records reflect the Carfax report. Since the light was out when I bought it, she could have easily not told me anything about ever having an issue. She didn't do that. This is the one problem with buying privately and not through a dealer, though I can share many dealer sales gone bad stories too, so I am not faulting the seller at all. She repeated to me what she was told by the place where she had her work done which was a known over-priced foreign car dealership in South/Central Jersey.

[jfoj]

This entire trouble code process drives me crazy.

Here is the way to play the game, regardless if you have a multi hundred or thousand dollar scan tool, you MUST do the following.

1. Log the data - Date, Mileage & Codes, if freeze frame data is available then gather the freeze frame info and document that as well. Even the Pros screw this up BIG TIME, all the time!

2. Clearing the codes to see if and when codes come back is a good thing, BUT, you really need to have easy access to a code reader so you can read the Emission Readiness codes and read the code(s) as soon as the CEL pops on.

3. Do not knee jerk and replace items just because a component or sensor is mentioned in the code description.

Clearly a more advanced tool that can read manufacturer specific codes it helpful, however, most common problems are covered with generic codes and you can make a lot of progress with generic code readers. I have many scan tools and I ALWAYS start with a generic reader then move on from there.

As for decent scan tools, the cheapest you can probably run across is the ELM327 Bluetooth ODBII and the Torque Pro app for an Driod product. You are looking at about $25-$30.

The next generic scan tool I really like is the Launch CReader VI, depending on where you buy it, you might get is for just under $100 up to about $180. I purchased mine on ebay out of Asia for about $84.

This is a killer generic tool: Real time data, Graphing, Storage, Code Database Onboard, Color LCD Display, Emission Readiness Monitor Status.

Again, do not relay on your shop to look out after your best interest. Start you own log, even if your shop gives you the codes, YOU need to log and document what codes you are getting.

Take your time and you will get things sorted quickly.

It does sound like if you are popping a CEL after refueling, you likely have an issue with the Evap system, but you need to see what codes you are getting. Could be something as simple as a bad gas cap, could be the Evap canister behind the passenger rear wheel, make sure nothing has been hit back there as the Evap canister can be easily cracked.

Good luck.

[Ylello]

I can't thank all of you enough for all your help.

Do they make an App or diagnostic tool I can use with my iPhone? I don't mind paying a little for it, and if they do, I can download it now and get the codes for myself tonight, and be able to post them on here for you guys.

I will say, this time the CEL did not come on immediately after filling the tank like it did the last time, it waited a bit. I drove it about 50 highway miles before it came on, and it was at start up.

I know just enough about cars to hurt myself, lol.. but I know enough that I am proud of myself; my dad taught me well. I can tell if there is hesitation in an engine, and can almost always feel a "miss" or a hiccup, and have always been on the money there. Not feeling it at all with this, and I have driven it 300 miles or so since last Friday, a lot of those miles highway. The light came on as soon as the guy screwed the cap on and I drove away the first time, and this time I started her up and it was on at start up.

[jfoj]

FuzzyCar is the cheapest iPhone app that I am aware of, $5 as I recall. BUT, you need the ELM327, about $20 on Amazon.

Amazon.com: Soliport ELM 327 Bluetooth OBDII OBD2 Diagnostic Scanner: Automotive

Here is a quick overview of what some of the iPhone apps are.

Elm 327 Bluetooth OBD-II's and Apps! - evolutionm.net

There is also Carbonga, but you need a $100 cable, go shop a Launch CReader VI and you will have a real tool.

Buy before you spend money, most local Auto Parts stores have scanners you can borrow.

Auto Zone, Advance, Pep Boys, O'Rielly.

They are cheap, generic tools, but the will work. Just call around and see who in your area has one. Many of the stores are open until 9-10 pm, so you could do this tonight if you are near any stores that have a scan tool you can borrow. Usually you just use it in the parking lot.

[Ylello]

Here is a little information...NJ lets you enter a VIN and get the most recent inspection report.

Looks like they did the "put out the check engine light and maybe they will pass it" trick, as the only reason it was failed was it was "not ready".

Not sure what the info at the end is, whether these are things she shared with DMV?

Vehicle Inspection Report (Duplicate)
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111111111111111111
Please Review This Important Information
THIS IS AN OFFICIAL RECORD WHICH MUST BE PRESENTED IF THE VEHICLE IS TO BE REINSPECTED. IF LOST, A DUPLICATE RECORD MAY BE OBTAINED FROM ANY INSPECTION FACILITY OR "http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Inspections/VIRReprint.html".
This vehicle must pass inspection by 10/31/2010, or it may be subjected to a fine(s) and/or registration suspension. RETAIN THIS DOCUMENT FOR USE ON REINSPECTION. Questions? Visit NJINSPECTIONS.COM or call the Motorist Hotline at 1-888-NJMOTOR. 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111111111111111111
FACILITY INFO
CHERRY HILL CIF
617 HAMPTON RD CHERRY HILL, NJ 08002 888-656-6867
Facility ID:
Workstation ID:
VEHICLE INFO
3VWCT21CX1M413631 SCJ77D NJ
2001
VOLKSWAGEN
NEW BEETLE
82429
GASO
3704
CONTROL INFO
CIF000030 CL050304
VIN:
Plate:
Veh. Type:
Year:
Make:
Model:
Odometer:
Fuel Type:
GVWR:
Certificate: Software Version: Date:
Time:
Inspection Type: Sticker#:
CIF000030201136255533 20110802
12/28/2011
03:25:33 PM
INITIAL C3976225
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111111111111111111
FINAL RESULT: FAIL Overall Safety Results: N/A Overall Emissions Result: FAIL Credentials: PASS
This test was performed in conformance with section 207(b) of the Federal Clean Air Act and the Inspection Sticker Date is 09/30/2010. 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111111111111111111
Primary Emission Test Performed:OBD - FAIL OBD SYSTEM - DIAGNOSTIC RESULTS
Bulb Check: PASS Check Engine Light On: PASS
OBD SYSTEM - READINESS STATUS
OBD Connector:
OBD Communications:
PASS PASS
NOT READY UNSUPPORTED NOT READY NOT READY
N/A
MIL Command Status: Overall Readiness Result:
A/C Refrigerant
Oxygen Sensors
Oxygen Sensors - Heaters EGR Systems
PASS FAIL
UNSUPPORTED NOT READY READY UNSUPPORTED
Engine Misfire
Fuel System Comprehensive Component
READY Catalytic Converters READY Heated Catalytic Converters READY Evaporative System
Secondary Air Injection OBD SYSTEM - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES PRESENT:
Total # of codes Present: 0 Individual Codes Present:
Secondary Emissions Test(s) Performed:
TEST RESULT:
Gas Cap N/A
Tampering PASS
Visible Smoke PASS
Liquid Leak PASS
Indicator Light PASS
Misc. Emissions PASS 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111111111111111111
EXPLANATION:
Based on information obtained from the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, the system is not ready to determine the status of the pollution control system on this vehicle. To continue with the inspection process, the vehicle's OBD system
must be ready for testing upon reinspection. See the vehicle owner's manual for information on "OBD/Readiness Driving Procedures" or contact your vehicle service provider.
TSB: V011204 V011204 DIAGNOSTIC MISFIRE ASSISTANCE AFTER PERFORMING CAMPAIGN 28F/P1 (GASOLINE ENGINES ONLY
TSB: V461106 BRAKE DISC, PULSATION, ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT ROUTAN (U.S. ONLY)
Report Run: 12/11/2012 07:09:46 PM Page 1 of 3

Inspector:
CLAIRE L. INGRAM
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 111111111111111111
CLAIRE L. INGRAM INL004733
VIN: 3VWCT21CX1M413631 Plate: SCJ77D Year: 2001 Make: VOLKSWAGEN Model: NEW BEETLE
TSB: V921102 CUSTOMER STATES WINDSHIELD WIPERS STREAK OR SMEAR TSB: V101101 V101101 ALL EXCEPT ROUTAN WITH 2.0L (CCTA, CBFA)
TSB: V461005 BRAKE DISC, PULSATION
TSB: V921005 CUSTOMER STATES WINDSHIELD WIPERS STREAK OR SMEAR TSB: V261004 MIL IS ON AND/OR CATALYTIC CONVERTER IS RATTLING
TSB: V941002 HEADLIGHTS MAY INTERMITTENTLY DIM SLIGHTLY AT IDLE
Vehicles that fail the Emissions Inspection may be eligible for warranty coverage for the required repairs. Vehicle manufacturers are required by federal law to provide federally certified vehicles with Emissions Warranties for at least eight (8) years or eighty thousand (80,000) miles and on some California certified vehicles up to fifteen (15) years or one hundred fifty thousand (150,000) miles. Warranty coverage may vary depending upon vehicle make and model year. For further information, please refer to the Emissions Warranty section of the vehicle owner's manual.

[jfoj]

Hard to follow the inspection report as some information is truncated down a line or not clear??

What I can garner is 2 things.

1. There may have been a SAP (Secondary Air Pump) system trouble code. This is not uncommon and many times can be very easy to fix. Often a broken or crack plastic hose on most of these cars. Can be fixed with duct tape for a tempermanent fix! EDIT - After further review, not sure the SAP had a trouble code.

2. It also looks like the Emission Readiness Monitors may not have fully cleared?

"Based on information obtained from the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, the system is not ready to determine the status of the pollution control system on this vehicle. To continue with the inspection process, the vehicle's OBD system
must be ready for testing upon reinspection."

What you need to understand is EVERY time you clear codes, the Emission Readiness Monitors are reset as well. You need to drive upto 30-100 miles sometimes to clear the Emission Readiness Codes.

NOTE, many/most states allow sometimes up to 2 Readiness Monitor Codes to not be cleared and still pass Emission Inspection as long as the CEL is not lit.

If the CEL is lit, then you will likely not pass period.

The Emission Readiness Monitors are there to keep people from clearing codes around the corner from the Inspection station, pulling in and passing, the driving down the road and a CEL condition occurs. This way after every time the CEL is reset, you have to go though and clear all the Emission Readiness Monitors before you can be in good shape.

So you really need to also have a code reader than can display the Emission Readiness Status, not all readers provide this data. You also need to pay attention to the Emission Readiness Status as well.

[Ylello]

It did not copy paste well at all, but that is the overall consensus of the report; they cleared the codes either by replacing the battery, which is new, according to the owner, or some other means, in hopes of passing, and not being aware that the OBD system will now show no history/not ready to read codes. Heck, I did not know this until recently.

I still want to believe people are good at heart. Maybe they genuinely could not get to the bottom of the issues; she had it serviced for the light at least 5 times since 2003, and said it had been a constant issue..she would take it to the dealer, and drive away with the engine light off and eventually it would come back. The Carfax records reflect that.

The issue now is that I have now inherited the nightmare of trying to figure out what is wrong with it. I trust our mechanic but I don't personally know him super well, he came highly recommended by good friends, and we have used him on our Jeeps since we moved here two years ago, but I don't know how much experience he has on VW's honestly, or if he would know the ins and outs of codes and not nickel and dime me on parts. I would like to get to the bottom of it once and for all.

The car has never had any accidents, checked that first thing before I bought it and mechanic checked for any under carriage/ tell tale signs of damage and nothing.

[jfoj]

Yes, someone cleared the codes and/or the car was sitting a LONG times with a flat battery before they took it for the inspection that you provided the report for.

Get codes read and log before clearing. THIS IS IMPORTANT.

I saw some reference to misfires on the inspection report. These may have been Pending codes?? Does the car start and run rough first thing in the morning? If so, this will likely trigger misfire codes. You can usually work around this until the issue can be repaired but keeping the engine RPM a bit higher and waiting about 1 minute before you try to take off and drive the car.

If you have any of the info from the original owner about what codes were popping, this will be very helpful.

The code(s) will direct you in the proper direction, but hold off before you let your shop work on the problem until you can get feedback here.

Many of the common CEL issues are due to vacuum leaks, ignition coils, Evap leaks, bad thermostat, etc.

[Ylello]

It starts fine..never runs rough at all, ever. And it did sit in her garage for two years, but from my initial drive home 45 minutes away, to the last few days, in the 300 miles put on her, she's run like a dream, shifts great, no issues at all. No catalytic smells, no tranny smells, nada.

I don't think she would know what the codes are....not to pick on my gender, but most women aren't car geeks like me, I come from a family of car geeks, so there it is.

All she said was that she had issues with the check engine light off and on over the life of the vehicle, would take it to dealership, they'd go away for a while and come back. The CARFAX notes on repairs from the dealership just says why it was brought in and what was checked, but never mentions anything about repairing anything specifically beyond the brakes, a new water pump, normal maintenance stuff. My guess is they also just cleared the code. And I am sure she just did the new battery thing thinking like most people do, that this would help since apparently no one at her shop ever fixed whatever this issue is. :roll eyes: I feel bad for her, but worse for me, since now its my pocketbook that will pick up the tab, all at 100% since at 83,000 it is out of warranty.

I want her fixed though. I have already bonded and love her, so I will get the codes checked tomorrow on my own at Autozone, and come back here and post them asap, and then take it to the mechanic after that with my suggested list from here. It's usually how I handle repairs with the Jeep...he loves me coming in and acting like I know things, it's like when I take my kids to the doc and proceed to diagnose them on my own,lol. But i want it fixed once and for all. She is a dream to drive, spotlessly clean, only had 6000 miles a year on average put on her.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Ylello

I can't thank all of you enough for all your help.

Do they make an App or diagnostic tool I can use with my iPhone? I don't mind paying a little for it, and if they do, I can download it now and get the codes for myself tonight, and be able to post them on here for you guys.

I will say, this time the CEL did not come on immediately after filling the tank like it did the last time, it waited a bit. I drove it about 50 highway miles before it came on, and it was at start up.

I know just enough about cars to hurt myself, lol.. but I know enough that I am proud of myself; my dad taught me well. I can tell if there is hesitation in an engine, and can almost always feel a "miss" or a hiccup, and have always been on the money there. Not feeling it at all with this, and I have driven it 300 miles or so since last Friday, a lot of those miles highway. The light came on as soon as the guy screwed the cap on and I drove away the first time, and this time I started her up and it was on at start up.

There is no great scan app for iOS or Apple devices. Besides the app on android that he is mentioning is only one part required. You also need a Bluetooth scan tool that interfaces with the Android device. Personally I wouldn't make this more complicated then it really is. Just get it scanned at Autozone and let us know what the codes are. It could be something very simple that doesn't need any complex data logging etc. Lets keep it simple at least for now.

[Ylello]

OK here are the codes fresh from Autozone:

PO172
P1128

Probable causes: Leaking fuel pressure regulator or injector, faulty canister purge solenoid, Faulty Ho2S Bank 1
Vacuum leak on engine, low fuel pressure.

What is the next step??

[Ylello]

OK some other things on each code, though I am sure you guys know what they mean better than I do:
Failed MAF, Long term fuel trim B1 system too lean on the P1128 code sheet
System too rich, high fuel pressure condition on the PO172 code sheet

I do not see anywhere in the service records that the MAF was ever replaced in her, so do you think I should have him order that part and get it done?

[IndyTom]

Before ordering a New MAF (That poor thing gets blamed for way too many things) I would try taking it off and cleaning it with some MAF Cleaner.
I would also check and replace all the vacuum lines if you haven't done so already. If they are still the original cloth covered vacuum hoses I can almost guarantee that they have cracks and are sucking in unmetered air into your system.
Also clean your throttle body and do a throttle body adaption if you can. I would also take off your FPR (Fuel Pressure regulator and get some Deep Creep Spray by Seafoam and spray and clean it. It is probably sticking especially if the car has sat for a while. Also at your next fill up put some SEAFOAM into the gas tank before filling up to clean the injectors. I would also get a new fuel filter if you haven't replaced it in a while. Then clear all the codes and see what happens. If you have carefully checked and replaced all hoses, cleaned the MAF, cleaned the Throttlebody, cleaned the FPR and cleaned the injectors with some SEAFOAM in the Gas tank. (Put it in prior to filling up the car so it mixes with the gas). Then you can still order a new MAF. And don't get a cheap Chinese MAF either. They are crap and will fail after a very short while.