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Old 07-05-2013, 04:40 PM
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Default Roswell 2015 - Pre Planning Thread

It's been about a month since 2013 - we need to start getting some feedback on what people want out of 2015's Roswell Show.
Feel free to post your ideas...I'll update this first post as we go along and start getting ideas that stick.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:41 PM
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This post left blank...well, guess it isn't blank...but something different might end up here later...
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:47 PM
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Should we set a date to start things off? When I mentioned my idea of flying to the nearest airport and renting a Beetle right after my daughter's graduation ceremony to my wife, she pointed out that we will have lots of family (her side) coming to see it, and she wasn't thrilled about me leaving immediately afterwards, so if the date isn't changed, I may have a tough time making RTR in 2015 after all....
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:45 PM
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Default Roswell Planning -- 2015

Hey Antoine et al. First, I thought all you guys did a fantastic job this year. Aaron, CiaoBug, Halcyon, and I really enjoyed Roswell this year. There are several thoughts I have about changes in the future, the primary one being that I think we should consider extending an invitation to the air-cooled Beetle population. In so doing, we might even get VWofA to help sponsor the event, and maybe even make an appearance like they did one year. And speaking of sponsors, do we want to consider trying to get sponsors again, thereby diffusing the cost from the planners (and participants) a bit? I kind of liked having all the vendors and such at R2K events. If we did this of course, we would have to consider a much larger location for the car show, e.g., the convention center.
Just my thoughts to start with . . .
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:57 PM
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My 2 cents: What makes Roswell so special is the fact that it is for water-cooled Beetles only. If we included old-school air-cooleds, it would be just another VW show with the usual cliques. Many if not most air-cooled fans don't even like or respect Beetles with front engines, and I doubt if I'd drive 1600 miles to take part in something that happens every summer weekend in dozens of places that would be a lot closer. New Beetle/21st Century Beetle people are special, unique, and close-knit, and we need to maintain this exclusive trait. Currently, Roswell, Tail of the Dragon, and Talimena are the only 3 such gatherings that do this.

As for VWoA being more likely to sponsor it with the inclusion of air-cooleds, I would think they would be more interested in plugging current models than those that haven't been sold as new since Jimmy Carter sat in the White House. Including air-cooleds would definitely result in a much bigger event, but what you'd have would be a scenario with 35-50 water-cooled Beetle people being overshadowed by about 200 old-school people that still think it's 1967.

Last edited by Pushing Fifty; 07-07-2013 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:00 AM
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Agree with Sue that the 2013 event was fantastic! Lots of fun! I also agree with her that we should include all Beetles...young and old. With that, we are more likely to get VOA and vendor support.
I also suggest that money for events (i.e., banquet) should be obtained prior to the event...that way no one gets stuck paying out of pocket for the no-shows. Per haps there whould be an entry fee that covers the banquet, trophies, shirts, etc.
Having the event at night was a great idea! it was cooler and we were able to include lighting in our displays.

Richard and I can help by getting posters printed, etc.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:42 AM
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Gatherings that were formed from the Org like Roswell, ToD, and now Talimena serve as the pioneering events for the modern-day version of the Beetle. I don't have anything against the "classic" air-cooleds, but allowing them into events like Roswell would be the same thing as saying that NBs/2012+ Beetles aren't worthy enough to stand on their own, which is sadly the general consensus at your typical VW shows as it is. That's why I love Roswell so much; the fact that it's one of the few water-cooled Beetle-only events out there. I feel so strongly about this that I'll say this right now: If it is decided to include air-cooleds at Roswell, I'm done. VW shows dominated with air-cooled Beetles are a dime a dozen, and can be found just about anywhere at any given time, so there would be no reason to drive hundreds of miles across the country to be overshadowed by old-school Beetles when one can find a show like that just a few hours away. The friends I've made at Roswell are priceless.....but one of the main reasons for this is because we all share a love for TODAY's Beetles.

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Old 07-08-2013, 04:16 AM
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I have never attended R2R, but I am with Pat. Sure, it would be nice to have more participation, and sponsors, but I have the feeling that if we allow air-cooled beetles, why not Busses? Karman Ghias? Ya know! I have also heard that atleast 1 participant wants to move the location!

This is like moving ToD to North Dakota! The GTG will lose all meaning, and purpose. Bot to mention deter those who just want to be with their Org friends!

While the inclusion of AC's at the GTG may not keep me from trying to make it to 2015, I dont think it is cool to mess with tradition.

Just 2 cents from future R2R attendee!
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:58 AM
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I also agree with pat, while it would be nice to see more people at roswell I dont think its a very good Idea the fact of the matter is that most of the air cooled people simply do not respect us.

That being said I know there is interest from the ac to join us at roswell, my mom works with a lady that has several ac beetles and she told me today at dubsplash that she would like to go to Roswell for the show but she has an ac so she cant

Heres an idea if we do end up allowing ac, so they dont over power us have some sort of limit on how many can enter. Maybe even a pre -register only. Just an idea to hopefully keep everyone happy

But like i said im against it. Having only water cooled bugs is part of what makes Roswell so great

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Abbie2007Beetle View Post
That being said I know there is interest from the ac to join us at roswell, my mom works with a lady that has several ac beetles and she told me today at dubsplash that she would like to go to Roswell for the show but she has an ac so she cant

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And that's just it, because someone with an air-cooled Beetle (or several, as in the case of your mom's friend) has a virtually unlimited pick of dozens of VW events within a few hours' drive to attend every weekend of the summer or even more often in warm climates. Conversely, water-cooled Beetle owners are very limited. With the exception of events like Roswell, ToD, and Talimena, we have to settle for all-VW events where the chances of anyone even giving our cars a second glance is usually slim to none. Granted, some VW clubs have a New Beetle Class at their shows, but the overwhelming majority of attendees are either into ac or other water-cooled VW models and thus "forced" to pick a favorite NB out of a whopping 3-5 that bother to show up, and they more than likely don't even respect them to begin with. Roswell as it has been since its inception prevents that from happening and serves as a reunion/gathering of an exclusive group of individuals that proudly stand out from the status quo. If you've been to as many VW shows as I have over the years, events like Roswell represent a very refreshing break from the standard fare. Adding old-school ac's would destroy that.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pushing Fifty View Post
And that's just it, because someone with an air-cooled Beetle (or several, as in the case of your mom's friend) has a virtually unlimited pick of dozens of VW events within a few hours' drive to attend every weekend of the summer or even more often in warm climates. Conversely, water-cooled Beetle owners are very limited. With the exception of events like Roswell, ToD, and Talimena, we have to settle for all-VW events where the chances of anyone even giving our cars a second glance is usually slim to none. Granted, some VW clubs have a New Beetle Class at their shows, but the overwhelming majority of attendees are either into ac or other water-cooled VW models and thus "forced" to pick a favorite NB out of a whopping 3-5 that bother to show up, and they more than likely don't even respect them to begin with. Roswell as it has been since its inception prevents that from happening and serves as a reunion/gathering of an exclusive group of individuals that proudly stand out from the status quo. If you've been to as many VW shows as I have over the years, events like Roswell represent a very refreshing break from the standard fare. Adding old-school ac's would destroy that.
I saw that at dub splash, they were focusing on ac more than the water cooled they had many mess ups with the water cooled but none that I heard of from the ac and once had finished with all the ac awards almost all the ac people left. Im sure if I went to more ac/wc events I would see more of the same. Its just a nice thought think we could allow them but I dont think it will ever happen

I know your not on facebook so you didnt see the sticker some air cooled idot posted it. It just goes to show you how some of them feel about us
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:01 PM
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Wow. Just wow. Words can't even begin to describe what I'm thinking since I saw that photo above. Actually, I have many in mind, but this is a civil site.

Once, right after I got my first NB back in 2009, I went to an all-VW show in Fargo, North Dakota. It was mostly a/c, and most of the people were nice, but I remember one lady from Winnipeg, Manitoba that came down with a Canadian group: She asked me which car was mine. I pointed to my 2000 Cyber Green and said, "That one."

She replied, "New Beetles don't do anything for me. They're not real Beetles, and they're pointless."

Rather than saying what I wanted to say, I just walked away from her. She had a beautiful 1951 Split Window, but I refused to vote for her car in my Top 10 Favorites because of her attitude. I do believe that water-cooled Beetles will eventually overtake the old ac's at all-VW shows, but it will take about 15-20 years before that happens, and until it does, idiots like that person above and the lady from Winnipeg will still rear their ugly heads from time to time.

What really irks me at VW shows that don't have separate voting classes is when some beat-up, rusty Bug or Bus that hasn't looked good since the end of the Vietnam War will get an award when an immaculate NB, (or for that matter, a Jetta or Golf) will get ignored simply because they're less than 10 years old.

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:49 PM
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As long as the gtg stays in the area (new mexico, texas, colorado)will attend. I go for the people not the location. I'm with Pat - air-cooleds have plenty of other shows to choose from, let's keep this one for water cooled Beetles only.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:59 PM
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I think one of the main issues with money is...you have to deal with money. That sentence might not make sense...but here's a little history.

The Texas New Beetle Round-Up...because some of the members of the DFW New Beetle Club wanted to keep from getting sued by someone attending a show that we put together we decided we needed to Incorporate...and that meant paperwork and bank accounts and all the headaches involved with that.
Sure, we were able to collect registration - but we also had a major sponsor...and when everything was said and done we dumped the money to a charity.

While all that sounds good...the headaches involved in setting up the corporation and keeping track of everything were something that those of us that have run the show the last few years weren't willing to deal with. I know that the TNBRU was one of the reasons that the mighty DFW New Beetle Club ended up disbanding...and I don't wish that type of drama and tension on any of my New Beetle family.

I am so happy that we had one vendor show up to this year...and would suggest if we get them in the future that we show them much more respect than the way we treated Dieselgeek this year. All in all, he said he had a great time and got lots of valuable feedback.

As for the AC beetles. I tend to agree with the consensus to allow the locals to park with us, but no trophies or a class...but I haven't discussed that with anyone else.
I'm not sure the type of vendors/sponsors that we would want to attract, but I don't think the Aircooled community would bring what we would want. The semi-local (another issue) VW dealerships would rather see people that will spend money at their dealerships (parts, service, new car purchases) - I don't think there are many AC people that are looking to purchase a new VW...but that is stereotyping on my part. I do know a few people that have AC and WC VWs...but I don't think that is a majority of the mix.

I don't really have any solutions...but we have 6 months to a year to knock around ideas before we really need to discuss particulars.

Pat - what weekend is your conflict? If we do another night show I am fine with suggesting we move it forward a week or two to get it away from school and graduations. Every year we do start a thread to discuss the date and I always ask for people to check their calendars...we have always worried about people not being able to make it because of school/graduation. I even messed up this years date because of Aiden's school calendar...they changed it and I didn't realize until a month out that his last day of school was the day I left for Roswell - so he couldn't come with me even if he had wanted to.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:22 PM
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Roswell is H2o and thats it. If i want to see air cooled than ill drive to ennis (1/4 mile track) and see them there. i know i wouldnt go to Roswell if AC's are there. I want a H2o experience. I mean what vendors can AC offer? some VW pens, and silly plastic things we throw away after 2 years? I want speed and performance and style... not antique stuff.

I would have no interest in joining up witht he AC crew. thats my .05 cent nickle ride.

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Old 07-09-2013, 08:15 PM
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Vendors at VW shows up here in my part of the country are generally people selling old air-cooled parts, air-cooled T-shirts,toys, or aftermarket parts for air-cooled. It's a rare occasion when somebody has any water-cooled parts, and when they do, it's likely going to be for an 80s Rabbit, not a post-1998 New Beetle. Once in a while, someone may have an interesting book or poster, but that's about it. I just get my modern Beetle parts at the dealership.

I side with Antione in the fact that I don't mind if a couple of townies with acs want to hang out with us, but Roswell is and always should be a water-cooled Beetle event. And the stereotype is quite accurate: Most air-cooled owners don't own water-cooled VWs, and some don't even know that NBs have engines in the front! For the most part, these people are stuck in the 1960s.

The confict I'll have will be as follows: If we have the event at the same time in '15, it's very probable that my daughter's graduation would be taking place the Friday night before the Saturday show, and I'm 1600 miles away. I thought of doing what Al (Scarab Y2K) did for ToD and flying out to rent a Beetle, but my wife pointed out that we'll have many family members staying with us, and she wouldn't be too cool with me heading for the airport right after the ceremony ends. So....moving RTR 15 to a different weekend would make my life a lot easier. But not the weekend of Father's day, because that's my local VW club's show, and I'm an officer. Any other weekend before June 10, 2015 or after June 17, 2015, would work. Just not the 10th or 17th.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:12 PM
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I'm with Antoine on this. Location (RETURN 2 ROSWELL). A lot of paper work, time and more money will be required to charge an entry fee. I'm willing to pay for the trophies again for 2015. We need to locate a banquet room when we change hotels. A (maybe new) show location. Let the local ac show with us if they want, but this has always been a New Beetle show. A week later in June works better for me. We need input from everyone
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:31 AM
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75Shot: Would 2 weeks later in June work? One week later would be Father's Day weekend, the time of my local club's show (unless I can get them to change, that is.....and you never know, it's always a possibility that my North Country Water Beetle club will be in full swing by then, in which case I may not even be in that all-VW club anymore. They are very air-cooled-biased! )
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:08 AM
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75Shot: Would 2 weeks later in June work? One week later would be Father's Day weekend, the time of my local club's show (unless I can get them to change, that is.....and you never know, it's always a possibility that my North Country Water Beetle club will be in full swing by then, in which case I may not even be in that all-VW club anymore. They are very air-cooled-biased! )
2 weeks later would put us back to the original dates for Roswell, works for me. The temperature may be hotter by then. The later date would let more people have the opportunity to make the show with school being out by then. We have approx. a year to set a date
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:30 AM
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By having a night show, the heat shouldn't be that big of a deal even 2 weeks later. At the most, it might be 10 degrees warmer, but hey, it's a dry heat! I know 2015 is a ways off, but I'd still love to know if I could pull this off with my daughter's graduation and all. Maybe I could even get her to come in the 2000 Cyber Green if I can manage to get her as enthused about Beetles as she used to be when she was a toddler!
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