VW Microbus Coming--maybe?

[raff]

The retro Microbus concept apparently is still alive and well.

See attached link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/06/r...-on-the-table/

[jdesigns]

I think it would be wonderful if they could equip it nicely for around $20K or so, and change the headlights to round. I'd put myself on the list to buy one!

[PhoenixRising]

Needs to be flatter in the nose, with those round headlights. Then it would be worth a second look!

[silverspeedbuggy]

I have followed the development from the moment I saw the concept Microbus in Detroit. I can relay more of the history if anyone wants it. The most important info is that the new Routan was always considered to be a one-and-done gap-filling model for VWoA. They wanted a van and wanted it quickly, so why not pair up with another manufacturer to get a model on showroom floors ASAP while they develop their own independent model? It makes a lot of sense, but the new Microbus still has some hurdles to jump over before VW can fully approve a build date for it:
1. The new Routan has to sell. If VW can't sell Routans, there isn't much of a case for Microbuses.
2. While many of us, myself included, would love to see a very emotional retro-inspired design, the buying public tends to shy away from quirky vans. True minivan buyers don't want to think outside the box: The Nissan Quest, GM TransSport/Lumina/Silouhette (or however you spell it), heck even the close-to-'normal' GM Montana/Uplander never sold well.
3. They have to keep the price in check. The original Microbus concept was intended to be built on the commercial VW Van (the model in Europe that replaced what we knew as the Eurovan), but it was going to be far too expensive and not very car-like to drive (which is a minivan requirement).

[D2Beetle]

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

I have followed the development from the moment I saw the concept Microbus in Detroit. I can relay more of the history if anyone wants it. The most important info is that the new Routan was always considered to be a one-and-done gap-filling model for VWoA. They wanted a van and wanted it quickly, so why not pair up with another manufacturer to get a model on showroom floors ASAP while they develop their own independent model? It makes a lot of sense, but the new Microbus still has some hurdles to jump over before VW can fully approve a build date for it:
1. The new Routan has to sell. If VW can't sell Routans, there isn't much of a case for Microbuses.
2. While many of us, myself included, would love to see a very emotional retro-inspired design, the buying public tends to shy away from quirky vans. True minivan buyers don't want to think outside the box: The Nissan Quest, GM TransSport/Lumina/Silouhette (or however you spell it), heck even the close-to-'normal' GM Montana/Uplander never sold well.
3. They have to keep the price in check. The original Microbus concept was intended to be built on the commercial VW Van (the model in Europe that replaced what we knew as the Eurovan), but it was going to be far too expensive and not very car-like to drive (which is a minivan requirement).

Perhaps some people need to be knocked out of their box before they can think out of it. Given the automotive events today, getting knocked out should be an easy thing to do. I say build it.

[dieseldriver]

I politely disagree. To me, I grew up with seeing Microbus' on the streets and I loved them. My wife and were waiting for the New Microbus since it was mentioned in the mailer, as VW was doing a market research. Where the Routan is a minivan in its truest sense, it is not the remake of Microbus. We waited on Microbus to debut and when it was announced that the project was being scrapped, we bought the Eurovan. Although the Eurovan was a "okay" van, it drove more like a truck than a car. Also, where the Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey was offering automatic door (2x) and hatch, Eurovan, based on the A3 components, had one manual door. Also, it came only in 4-speed automatic, and the gas mileage was horrible. We did not intend to buy the T3/Eurovan, but it was our only option. Last year, we traded the Eurovan for a Honda Odyssey. My wife and I consider ourselves a true VW fanatic, but as a family "truckster" Eurovan didn't quite cut the mustard. We hope VW will come out with the MIcrobus, and we hope that it stays true to the original design of simplicity and functionality.

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

If VW can't sell Routans, there isn't much of a case for Microbuses.

[silverspeedbuggy]

I agree with you diesel. As I mentioned, I personally would love to see a very Microbus-y design, but know myself and a handful of people would actually buy it. Sure, many might admire it, but a true minivan customer will not hand over their money if it is too weird or different. It must be practical, affordable, comfortable, and offer lots of amenities.

There's a reason Honda copied Chrysler's vans; people bought them and liked them. Remember the original Honda Odyssey? The one with four car-like doors? They barely sold any of them. How about the Toyota Previa? It had the motor beneath the floor. They couldn't sell these either. Who has the highest minivan sales now? Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota. Heck, GM outright dropped all their minivans and walked away from the segment entirely and have no plans to enter back in to it. You could probably write a book on all the failed minivans:
- Ford Aerostar
- Ford Windstar
- Chevy Astro
- Mitsubishi minivan (had the engine behind the front seats)
- VW Eurovan (as mentioned)
- Dodge Expo/LRV (more mini-minivan)
- Mazda MPV
- Nissan Axcess
- Saturn Relay

In today's tough economy if a car manufacturer can't sell it, they won't build it. Heck, as much as I hate to say this, I could see VW axeing this model soon; times are just too tough.

[dieseldriver]

To add to this, I worked at a rental car agency while I was completing my 4 year degree. I became totally dismayed with Ford vehicles then where during the winter months, we used to get lots of dreaded calls from rentees; Aerostar flipping over to Tracer falling off of a cliff (no, seriously). My first acquaintance with Ford product was 78 Ford Mustang, which I am 'til this day, very fond of. But, after my experience with Ford products in early nineties, I made a sincere pledge not to purchase any Ford products. Well, I don't even want to go into GM. I'm digressing a bit here but why 'o why people do not want to buy from the Big 3 - erosion with in terms of quality of products over so many decades. But that's a whole another topic. "Have you driven a Ford, Lately?"

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

I agree with you diesel. As I mentioned, I personally would love to see a very Microbus-y design, but know myself and a handful of people would actually buy it. Sure, many might admire it, but a true minivan customer will not hand over their money if it is too weird or different. It must be practical, affordable, comfortable, and offer lots of amenities.

There's a reason Honda copied Chrysler's vans; people bought them and liked them. Remember the original Honda Odyssey? The one with four car-like doors? They barely sold any of them. How about the Toyota Previa? It had the motor beneath the floor. They couldn't sell these either. Who has the highest minivan sales now? Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota. Heck, GM outright dropped all their minivans and walked away from the segment entirely and have no plans to enter back in to it. You could probably write a book on all the failed minivans:
- Ford Aerostar
- Ford Windstar
- Chevy Astro
- Mitsubishi minivan (had the engine behind the front seats)
- VW Eurovan (as mentioned)
- Dodge Expo/LRV (more mini-minivan)
- Mazda MPV
- Nissan Axcess
- Saturn Relay

In today's tough economy if a car manufacturer can't sell it, they won't build it. Heck, as much as I hate to say this, I could see VW axeing this model soon; times are just too tough.

[dieseldriver]

VW Eurovan T5 is actually a very nice van. It is also sold in manual or auto with TDI. Why doesn't VW import T5 Eurovan with a manual tranny and TDI, and 4Motion? That would be very much loved by VW enthusiasts like myself.

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

I agree with you diesel. As I mentioned, I personally would love to see a very Microbus-y design, but know myself and a handful of people would actually buy it. Sure, many might admire it, but a true minivan customer will not hand over their money if it is too weird or different. It must be practical, affordable, comfortable, and offer lots of amenities.

There's a reason Honda copied Chrysler's vans; people bought them and liked them. Remember the original Honda Odyssey? The one with four car-like doors? They barely sold any of them. How about the Toyota Previa? It had the motor beneath the floor. They couldn't sell these either. Who has the highest minivan sales now? Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota. Heck, GM outright dropped all their minivans and walked away from the segment entirely and have no plans to enter back in to it. You could probably write a book on all the failed minivans:
- Ford Aerostar
- Ford Windstar
- Chevy Astro
- Mitsubishi minivan (had the engine behind the front seats)
- VW Eurovan (as mentioned)
- Dodge Expo/LRV (more mini-minivan)
- Mazda MPV
- Nissan Axcess
- Saturn Relay

In today's tough economy if a car manufacturer can't sell it, they won't build it. Heck, as much as I hate to say this, I could see VW axeing this model soon; times are just too tough.

[silverspeedbuggy]

The T5 was supposed to be the bones of the Microbus body. VW stated, years ago already, that the starting price for a T5 Microbus would be $28,000; far too expensive for the average minivan buyer, especially once you start adding options. Think what a TDI 4motion model would run!

From what I've read, the T5 gets good reviews and has some novel features (I think I remember reading about an in-ceiling microphone system that allowed people in the rear most seats to talk and be heard by the front seat passengers through the stereo speakers), but overall consensus was it was too "European" for the U.S. It is too big (mostly tall), too expensive, and drives like a commercial van, not like a car.

Sure a manual (or DSG) tranny TDI 4 motion T5 would appeal to us dyed-in-the-wool enthusiasts, but they'd never sell in the volume needed. And it would cost close to $40K. Even at $28K it is off my list.

[silverspeedbuggy]

Oh yeah, I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative (I don't think that I am), just having a conversation!

[larryziegler]

Originally Posted by dieseldriver

VW Eurovan T5 is actually a very nice van. It is also sold in manual or auto with TDI. Why doesn't VW import T5 Eurovan with a manual tranny and TDI, and 4Motion? That would be very much loved by VW enthusiasts like myself.

Unfortunately, there are too many soccer moms who either refuse or don't know how to drive a vehicle equipped with a manual transmission. The cost of a diesel equipped 4Motion van would likely be $40,000+, well out of reach of most households. The day of the van has passed.....everything has now reverted to crossover sales and production. VW did the right thing with the introduction of the Tiguan as that is the hot segment now.

[silverspeedbuggy]

I even wonder if they missed the boat on the Tiguan. Many people are going for CUVs with a third row seat.

[silverspeedbuggy]

Gosh, I'm all sunshine and happiness tonight, aren't I?

Time for some wine....

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

Gosh, I'm all sunshine and happiness tonight, aren't I?

Time for some wine....

Well, I appreciated the posts.

Thanks for the info!

[larryziegler]

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

Gosh, I'm all sunshine and happiness tonight, aren't I?

Time for some wine....

Didn't you mean whine? JK JK

Its always ok to be the devils advocate.

[mrchaotica]

Originally Posted by dieseldriver

I became totally dismayed with Ford vehicles then where during the winter months, we used to get lots of dreaded calls from rentees; Aerostar flipping over to Tracer falling off of a cliff (no, seriously).

My first vehicle was an Aerostar. I actually liked it, until one day when I went around a curve and felt like it got up on two wheels. That was when I decided I'd be better off with a compact car.

But really, the Aerostar was a great van: it was roomy, had side windows that opened (albeit sliding rather than rolling down), and if you took the seats out it could fit a sheet of plywood flat on the floor. I take exception to silverspeedbuggy's claim that it "failed," in fact; even fifteen years (mine was a '92 model) later I still see them around here all the time (albeit now being driven by Mexican construction workers).

As far as the Microbus vs. minivans, I think the best thing to compare it to is the Mazda 5: smaller than a "normal" minivan and available with a genuine manual transmission. If I were going to buy a minivan today, that (or the Microbus) would be my choice (unless I needed it to hold a sheet of plywood!).

[dieseldriver]

Our 2007 Honda Odyssey Touring model was in excess of +$35K brand new. So to get a decent family "truckster" these days, you have to spend at least $30K so I think..

Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy

The T5 was supposed to be the bones of the Microbus body. VW stated, years ago already, that the starting price for a T5 Microbus would be $28,000; far too expensive for the average minivan buyer, especially once you start adding options. Think what a TDI 4motion model would run!

From what I've read, the T5 gets good reviews and has some novel features (I think I remember reading about an in-ceiling microphone system that allowed people in the rear most seats to talk and be heard by the front seat passengers through the stereo speakers), but overall consensus was it was too "European" for the U.S. It is too big (mostly tall), too expensive, and drives like a commercial van, not like a car.

Sure a manual (or DSG) tranny TDI 4 motion T5 would appeal to us dyed-in-the-wool enthusiasts, but they'd never sell in the volume needed. And it would cost close to $40K. Even at $28K it is off my list.

[silverspeedbuggy]

Originally Posted by mrchaotica

I take exception to silverspeedbuggy's claim that it "failed," in fact; even fifteen years (mine was a '92 model) later I still see them around here all the time (albeit now being driven by Mexican construction workers).

I should clarify; I'm talking sales and longevity. I agree a durable van is not a failure, but not selling enough of these vans is a failure in a manufacturer's eyes. I know one problem with Aerostars were they were rear wheel drive. Most buyers wanted a front wheel drive van. I know that's why they didn't sell well here.

Originally Posted by mrchaotica

As far as the Microbus vs. minivans, I think the best thing to compare it to is the Mazda 5: smaller than a "normal" minivan and available with a genuine manual transmission. If I were going to buy a minivan today, that (or the Microbus) would be my choice (unless I needed it to hold a sheet of plywood!).

AGREED!!!! Dear God, agreed! I've always thought the Mazda 5 is the perfect sized vehicle for many people. Unfortunately, buyers aren't clamoring for the 5. There are rumors Mazda will cancel it. As mentioned, the T5 is very large. It is closer in size to a Chevy full-size van than it is to a minivan. I think if VW could stretch the European Touran (based on the MKV Golf/Rabbit/Jetta) and put a Microbus body on it, it would sell very well. You'd get utility, a very car-like driver, and an affordable price.

[silverspeedbuggy]

Originally Posted by dieseldriver

Our 2007 Honda Odyssey Touring model was in excess of +$35K brand new. So to get a decent family "truckster" these days, you have to spend at least $30K so I think..

The $28K price was in early 2000 dollars. A quick check of Honda's website lists the 2009 starting price of $26,255. I also looked through edmunds.com* shows a review of a 2000 Honda Odyssey EX as $28K for a fully loaded model with navigation. So just to put it in perspective, in 2000, the VW would have started at $28K for a base model while you could get a loaded Honda for $28K.

If we extrapolate that out to today's dollars, which is not totally realistic but can give a ball-park figure, a loaded 2009 Honda Odyssey 4-door Touring with PAX (whatever that is) is $41K. If figures are similar to 2000, the Microbus might start at $40K today.

*http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...rticleId=44410