The New Rabbit

[Fowvay]

2 Door Rabbit TDi, 5spd, A/C, CD, PW, PDL, Keyless entry, heated seats for $16,500 and Pomelo would be traded in so fast she would be on thier lot for two days before she knew what had happened.

Now... the 2.5 2 Door Rabbit for $15,000... damn that is tempting. I'm not entirely sure if I am going to be able to resist that. I sure am going to try my damndest but it is soooooooo tempting.

[PunkinBug]

I want that little rabbit emblem for my little golf

[BigRedOne98]

Originally Posted by Fowvay

2 Door Rabbit TDi, 5spd, A/C, CD, PW, PDL, Keyless entry, heated seats for $16,500 and Pomelo would be traded in so fast she would be on thier lot for two days before she knew what had happened.

Now... the 2.5 2 Door Rabbit for $15,000... damn that is tempting. I'm not entirely sure if I am going to be able to resist that. I sure am going to try my damndest but it is soooooooo tempting.

Yeah I feel the same way, I was told at the Auto show that TDI will not be available on the new Rabbit?

[manoverboard987]

Originally Posted by BigRedOne98

Yeah I feel the same way, I was told at the Auto show that TDI will not be available on the new Rabbit?

if that's true, thats a huge huge HUGE mistake for VW.

so huge i dunno if i believe it.

[Whitacre]

Originally Posted by manoverboard987

if that's true, thats a huge huge HUGE mistake for VW.

so huge i dunno if i believe it.

True dat

If i didnt just buy a NB tdi, i would probably go for the rabbit TDi should it be available. Its probably actually better on mileage than the NB TDi because of the aerodynamics.

I also dig the european look.

I agree that it would be a HUGE mistake for VW to not offer the TDi in the US.

Diesels are starting to take off here, especially with VWs...they much own the largest diesel sedan/coupe market share in the US...who knows.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by Whitacre

True dat

If i didnt just buy a NB tdi, i would probably go for the rabbit TDi should it be available. Its probably actually better on mileage than the NB TDi because of the aerodynamics.

I also dig the european look.

I agree that it would be a HUGE mistake for VW to not offer the TDi in the US.

Diesels are starting to take off here, especially with VWs...they much own the largest diesel sedan/coupe market share in the US...who knows.

It won't get better fule mileage considering how much heavier MKV's are over MKIV's.

[Deserion]

But also remember, no real TDIs for 2007, but they should be back around 2008 (fuel and engine changes).

Mk5 PD-TDIs are about equivalent to Mk4 PD-TDIs in regards to efficiency.

-Des

[SMG]

Originally Posted by Deserion

But also remember, no real TDIs for 2007, but they should be back around 2008 (fuel and engine changes).

Mk5 PD-TDIs are about equivalent to Mk4 PD-TDIs in regards to efficiency.

-Des

They obviously changed the motor then, because the MKV Jetta weighs a healthy 400lbs more than the MKIV. 400 more pounds to lug around = more fuel used, so the new TDI must be more effiecent than the previous one, even if not reflected in the MPG rating of the vehicle.

[Whitacre]

But still, a better drag CE will result in better fuel mileage as well will it not?

[manoverboard987]

Originally Posted by Whitacre

But still, a better drag CE will result in better fuel mileage as well will it not?

only on a car with the same weight.

if the 400lbs that the new Jetta has on the NB is offset by 400lbs-worth less of drag, then the mileage should be about the same.

(of course, that theoretical calculation depends on the weights being evenly distributed, and the exact same drivetrain and wheels, and all kinds of nitpicky particulars.)

-----------------

didn't we see somewhere in the news that VW had to totally revamp the TDI with a common-rail design to meet the new US emissions specs? it would make sense for them to wait for the new TDI rather than stick an older one in a new car.

oh yeah. i guess that's what Des was talking about then, wasnt it.

[SMG]

The new Jetta has 700lbs on the NB. I was talking about new Jetta to old Jetta.

[manoverboard987]

Originally Posted by SMG

The new Jetta has 700lbs on the NB. I was talking about new Jetta to old Jetta.

oops. that'll teach me to read the whole thing before posting.

well same concept applies, just replace 400 with 700.

[SMG]

I have to point out that the Beetle TDI and the Golf TDI of the same year are rated at the exact same MPG rating, so if the Beetle is so terribly un-aerodynamic, why isn't the Golf kicking it's arse for fuel economy?

2003 Beetle TDI http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2001c...f.jsp?id=18452
2003 Golf TDI http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2001c...f.jsp?id=18610

[manoverboard987]

Originally Posted by SMG

I have to point out that the Beetle TDI and the Golf TDI of the same year are rated at the exact same MPG rating, so if the Beetle is so terribly un-aerodynamic, why isn't the Golf kicking it's arse for fuel economy?

i dont think the beetle is aerodynamically bad enough as compared to the golf to cause a difference in fuel economy.

at least thats the best answer i could come up with.

aren't the weights about the same too?

[SMG]

The Golf is 40-something pounds heavier than the NB, which isn't a ton, but the rule of math is that curves = more room inside with less material, so that really isn't surprising.

All of these weights I am going off of memory, I spent an hour one night figuring it all out and I don't want to research it again

[manoverboard987]

Originally Posted by SMG

The Golf is 40-something pounds heavier than the NB, which isn't a ton, but the rule of math is that curves = more room inside with less material, so that really isn't surprising.

All of these weights I am going off of memory, I spent an hour one night figuring it all out and I don't want to research it again

there's your answer then. i'd say the drag created by the stubby nose and fat fenders of the NB is balanced by that made by the flat rear end of the golf, making them about the same car.

well, in that aspect at least.

[Fowvay]

Fuel Milage has much to do with aerodynamics, gearing and weight. While the PD engine is more efficent than the previous TDi's that is only a small factor. The New Beetle is one of the most unaerodynamic shapes on the market today... heck it is one of the most aerodynamic shapes of all time but it does look pretty darn cool.

The Kammback shape of the Golf V may not seem very aerodynamic but in truth the sharp cut off of the rear end has been proven in wind tunnels to actually be quite efficent. We all know that a rear wing can help act as a way of smoothing out the wind flow. Well in this case the entire roof acts as a wing. The Golf is actually quite a bit more effiecent than the Jetta in the wind tunnel and in real life where the wind doesnt just come cleany at the front of the car but also from the sides.

So it would be expected that the Golf would do better than the Jetta in those circumstances. Now I know that the Golf weighs more than the NB but that really only effects the acceleration. The Golf with exactly the same amount of BHP and Torque would accelerate slower up to about 70mph then it would start accelerating faster as its aerodynamics take over. It would also pull a higher topspeed and provide better mpg at the same speeds.

Windforce on the vehicle acts like weight so the more resistant a car is too the wind the more it effectivly weighs at higher and higher speeds so technically at 100mph the Golf would weight less... sorta. It would take less BHP to push the Golf to 100mph than it would to push the New Beetle to the same speed.

In the city where aerodynamics play much less of a factor the NB should in theory do better but that is it's only real advantage.

I hope that was pretty clear...

[Whitacre]

Awesome! Thanks Fowvay.

Im driving in a jetta again, and i have to say the sedan is appealing to me again...damn it. I wont do anything though. Im happy with my little TDi bug. and now that gas is going up through the roof again because of all these "scares"...im happy to fill up ever two weeks.