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Old 11-28-2012, 01:10 PM
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Post Beetle Issues

Well lets get to the bottom line. My beetle has alot of issues going on. I will list my issues below:

1. Rough Idle (car shakes alot)
2. Runs rich
3. Misfires alot
4. Dies on it's own (even while driving)
5. Temp Light on/off alot
6. CEL
7. POOR Gas Mileage (getting worse each day)

So since owning the beetle I done the following:

1. Swapped/Fixed Fuel pump chip fixing fuel guage
2. Change air filter
3. Cleaned MAF Sensor
4. Ran CEL codes and got the following:

P0134 O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (no activity)
P0139 O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 (slow response)
P0300 random cylinder misfire
P0301 cylinder 1 misfire
P0302 cylinder 2 misfire
P0304 cylinder 4 misfire

My game plan for this weekend will be as follows.

1. Test the Coil, Wires, maybe O2 Sensors
2. Replace Plugs
3. Replace Temp Sensor
4. Replace Fuel Filter
5. Oil Change

Basically was just looking to see if anyone had some suggestions because the more I read threads I could be in for numerous issues. I am starting with the simple things in hopes to fix most of the issues before dropping the bigger dollars on sensors, computers, etc.....

Any suggestions or inputs would greatly be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:39 PM
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I would also consider pulling the O2 sensors and cleaning them off with a brush as well. I think your misfires could have caused the sensor and or cat problem, but would lean toward sensors. They may just have build up from unburnt fuel.


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Old 11-28-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJoel View Post
Well lets get to the bottom line. My beetle has alot of issues going on. I will list my issues below:

1. Rough Idle (car shakes alot)
2. Runs rich
3. Misfires alot
4. Dies on it's own (even while driving)
5. Temp Light on/off alot
6. CEL
7. POOR Gas Mileage (getting worse each day)

So since owning the beetle I done the following:

1. Swapped/Fixed Fuel pump chip fixing fuel guage
2. Change air filter
3. Cleaned MAF Sensor
4. Ran CEL codes and got the following:

P0134 O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 (no activity)
P0139 O2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 (slow response)
P0300 random cylinder misfire
P0301 cylinder 1 misfire
P0302 cylinder 2 misfire
P0304 cylinder 4 misfire

My game plan for this weekend will be as follows.

1. Test the Coil, Wires, maybe O2 Sensors
2. Replace Plugs
3. Replace Temp Sensor
4. Replace Fuel Filter
5. Oil Change

Basically was just looking to see if anyone had some suggestions because the more I read threads I could be in for numerous issues. I am starting with the simple things in hopes to fix most of the issues before dropping the bigger dollars on sensors, computers, etc.....

Any suggestions or inputs would greatly be appreciated. Thanks!
Is this a 2.0, if so could all be cause by a bad coil pack. You should remove it and check for cracks.


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Old 11-28-2012, 03:11 PM
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Yes it is a 2.0 and I have been reading alot about the coil! So that will get checked as well!
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:17 PM
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The stalling issue is most likely from a faulty Crankshaft positioning sensor/Speed sensor. They are known to fail and cause idle and stalling issues.

The rest looks like a simple tune up consisting of a new Coil, wires and plugs. Make sure the plugs are gapped correctly. A lot of plugs you buy from Autozone or the like are gapped way too much for our application.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

You may need a Pre Cat O2 sensor as well.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:29 PM
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Well last night I changed out my plugs and fuel filter. I don't want to jump into a satisfied state just yet. However, I have noticed it is running a little better for the time being. We will see as the days go by.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJoel View Post
Well last night I changed out my plugs and fuel filter. I don't want to jump into a satisfied state just yet. However, I have noticed it is running a little better for the time being. We will see as the days go by.
Did you gap the plugs to the proper gap before installing them?
Or did you get those BOSCH type plugs with multiple electrodes that you don't have to gap?
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:12 PM
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I looked them up and I saw they were to be .040 and I bought OEM but still made sure before they got installed. So answer would be yes!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJoel View Post
I looked them up and I saw they were to be .040 and I bought OEM but still made sure before they got installed. So answer would be yes!
Great! Good Luck and I hope this will solve your issues.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:52 PM
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Don't forget to re-adjust the throttle valve which I think is required after cleaning the maf sensor. There are a few diy procedures on doing that around here, just do a search. or do like I did just drive the car for a while and it'll smooth out after several cold starts or miles.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:55 PM
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My question now is since I cleaned the MAF. If I chose not to adjust the throttle valve do I risk damage and also would that lead to the car stalling out? I am still getting the rediculous stalls. My next thought in process is the Coil and the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor. What do you think?
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJoel View Post
My question now is since I cleaned the MAF. If I chose not to adjust the throttle valve do I risk damage and also would that lead to the car stalling out? I am still getting the rediculous stalls. My next thought in process is the Coil and the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor. What do you think?
Never heard about adjusting the Throttle valve after cleaning the MAF sensor but regardless it should not stall out your car. I am almost 110% sure that this is the fault of your crankshaft positioning sensor. Unless you get multiple missfires I would wait on the coil and do the crankshaft positioning sensor/Speed sensor first. It is the most likely culprit.
Good Luck!
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyJoel View Post
My question now is since I cleaned the MAF. If I chose not to adjust the throttle valve do I risk damage and also would that lead to the car stalling out? I am still getting the rediculous stalls. My next thought in process is the Coil and the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor. What do you think?
You don't harm anything It'll just idle a little rough and maybe throw a code for runnning too lean or too rich for a while, then it'll smooth out, well atleast mine did. The stalling problem could very well be the crank position sensor like indytom said or the coil pack. Good luck
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:22 PM
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Well I been talking to previous owner about some of the issues. He claims that he has had this in to be looked at and his mechanic couldn't find anything wrong. His mechanic did say, however, he believe it to be the computer! So my question now is could this possibly be the ECM? Just wanted to throw that out there!

I also wanted to say I truly appreciate everyon's inputs as they are guiding me along my ways with this car! Everyone has been super friendly and helpful! I believe this forum has been such great use!
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:32 PM
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Doubtful its the ECU. They rarely fail. Often, mechanics who don't know VWs tend to jump to a faulty ECU. I'd get the car to someone who knows these cars.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smileybug View Post
Doubtful its the ECU. They rarely fail. Often, mechanics who don't know VWs tend to jump to a faulty ECU. I'd get the car to someone who knows these cars.
^+1 Totally agree with the above statement.

I do not know the 2.0L to well, but you need to check all the vacuum hoses under the intake cover. You may have a lot of the small black & white check valves bad, assuming you have these??

Also keep in mind these cars had a lot of catalytic converter problems when the cell inside the converter would get loose, rattle and then break up and clog, causing a loss of power, poor fuel economy and possibly smelly exhaust.

Just get under the car and start hitting the cooled exhaust and catalytic converter with the palm or your hand. If you hear rattling inside the converter, you are on borrowed time. VW even recalled a lot of the 2.0L catalytic converters as I recall? A bad converter could be causing your O2 sensor to lack activity?

Also get a scan tool that can real real time engine date. You need to confirm the engine coolant temperature. These thermostat fail open and/or open to early and the engine runs cold, runs rich, lacks power and has poor fuel economy. You could also monitor the O2 sensor behavior as well.

The misfires may be be just from rough cold starts. You should log your codes, include date & mileage then see which come back first. My 1.8t had some rough cold starts, if I did not intervene with my right foot, the engine would stall or almost stall on the first start in the morning and it would ALWAYS register misfire codes for this cold start and never misfire once warm. So the misfires were real, but also a red herring and were not to be worried about once warmed up.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:13 PM
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[QUOTE=jfoj;817799
The misfires may be be just from rough cold starts. You should log your codes, include date & mileage then see which come back first. My 1.8t had some rough cold starts, if I did not intervene with my right foot, the engine would stall or almost stall on the first start in the morning and it would ALWAYS register misfire codes for this cold start and never misfire once warm. So the misfires were real, but also a red herring and were not to be worried about once warmed up.[/QUOTE]

There really shouldn't be any misfires just because it's cold outside. My 2000 1.8 never misfires or runs rough even at 20 below zero outside. If yours does then there is an issue somewhere with the SAI pump or the EGR purge valve,etc...

I still say that his problem lies with the Crankshaft Positioning Sensor. Stalling is one definitely symptoms of that sensor failing.

Quotted as per ECS Tuning website:

"Crankshaft positionin sensor is used by the ECU to control ignition and fuel injection, this sensor can burn or wear out over time. If the engine is revved with a worn sensor, misfires, motor vibrations and backfires can occur. There is a chance that your vehicle might not start altogether, so be sure to replace this faulty sensor."

OEM / Performance Parts for Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Mini, Porsche & Volkswagen - ECS Tuning

Make sure you get the proper sensor for your particular engine code.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:05 PM
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Cold start lean misfires are WAY more common than you might realize.

What I am trying to do is to slow down the knee jerk reaction to replacing expensive and hard to replace parts as to look over the very basic issues on cars that are 5+ years old that likely have a lot of rubber and plastic parts under the hood that are cracked and broken and can be replaced cheaply and easily.

There are a lot of problems that cause misfires and most of the time they are not from coils, spark plugs, secondary ignition or crank sensors.

The OP has issues with is O2 sensor behaving so I have to assume he may be running in open loop and possibly have lean issues, but without being able to look at fuel trim values this is hard to say for sure.

But the OP has outlined a reasonable game plan to start out with and he clearly does not want to throw expensive or hard to install parts at the car yet, which I totally agree with.

You would be surprise how many cold start problems are due to lean conditions because of crankcase and intake air leaks.

Again, it was not clear from the OP about when the misfires are felt, but we are now into Winter/colder temps for most of North America now.

I am a bit concerned about the OP rich comment, would be curious as to how he determined this? If due to a sulfur or exhaust smell, I would be concerned about his catalytic converter health.

My 2nd Cat is rattling again at only 75k miles, so I will be on my 3rd within the next week or so!
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:42 AM
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If your on your 2nd cat at only 75k miles you have never addressed the true issue your car is having .
Something is causing unburned fuel to enter the cat then it heats up and burns the ceramic inside. Which then your ceramic honeycombs inside crystallize and break up into chunks clogging the exhaust.
This can get pretty expensive over time.

The OP should have the car scanned via Vcds software to get a better picture of what is really going on.
His symptoms do point to the Speed /crankshaft position sensor. Sure he can play around and replace little things and ignore the actual issue. Or just pay a little more and get it fixed right the first time
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:36 AM
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If your on your 2nd cat at only 75k miles you have never addressed the true issue your car is having .
Something is causing unburned fuel to enter the cat then it heats up and burns the ceramic inside. Which then your ceramic honeycombs inside crystallize and break up into chunks clogging the exhaust.
This can get pretty expensive over time.
Dude, there is nothing wrong with this car relative to the Cats. It's not an issue of unburned fuel, the VW Cats are total crap, they were poorly designed, the monolithic cell was poorly wrapped, the wrap would break down, then the monolithic cell would get loose inside the housings, start to rattle around, then they would start to break up.

The current Cat on my car sounds like it is full of marbles. Stupid thing rattles like a MOFO.

VW recalled the 2.0L Cats for this same exact problem, but not the 1.8t, but the 1.8t had the exact same issues. It was an issue of design & vibration, nothing more than that.

Starting to think that some of the problems with the 1.8t motors that had oil pick ups plugged up (no with gooy sludge, but with flaky carbon) may have been due to the Cats being partially clogged and overheating the turbo then coking the oil??

As for the OP, I really doubt his crank sensor is the issue. I have not seen crank sensor problems on any cars I have come across since long before the NB was released. Cam sensors, this is a totally different issue, but this is not likely an issue here either.

You and I can disagree on this one, but I see people on many, many forums chasing misfires and other problems, tossing MAF's, coils and all kinds of expensive parts at the car and forgetting to deal with the basics. Most of the plastic and rubber crap and be visually inspected and ruled in or out as a problem very quickly and easily. As for MAF sensors, I see more problems with replacements that under report airflow. I tell everyone to keep their original and many times the original MAF goes back on the car as it he replacement caused even more problems.

I may be newer here, however, I have been around cars probably longer than the Internet has been around and I deal with MANY German models and I see many of the same issues across many different manufacturers.

The front of these cars are so compacted with very little airflow, the under hood temps cook all the rubber and plastic. In most cars I say the rubber only lasts 8 years, in these Beetles, I am seeing a lot of the rubber and plastic last only 5 years.

If you have black & white vacuum check valves under the hood, they are likely shot. I replaced mine long ago along with the air pump hoses.

Fix all the simple and cheap stuff first, then worry about the more expensive and difficult sensors if your made no headway with the cheaper parts!

Last edited by jfoj; 12-02-2012 at 02:42 AM..
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