White Smoke But GOOD Compression After Waterpump & Timing Belt Change - NewBeetle.org Forums
NewBeetle.org Forums
Go Back   NewBeetle.org Home > NewBeetle.org Forums > Discussion - Technical > 1.8 Liter Turbo

1.8 Liter Turbo Discussion area for the 1.8 liter turbocharged engine.

NewBeetle.org is the premier Volkswagen Beetle Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:18 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Exclamation White Smoke But GOOD Compression After Waterpump & Timing Belt Change

Hi everyone...need some help here.

I have a 2002 1.8T with around 130,000 miles. A couple weeks ago the waterpump went out while driving. I immediately pulled over and turned the car off. I didn't drive it any longer. There was NO smoke out of the exhaust at this time, and after I was towed home it ran fine when idling for a few seconds (of course not letting it get hot).

I ordered the waterpump/timing belt kit from ECS and changed the waterpump, timing belt, tensioner, thermostat, housing, serpentine belt, etc...also flushed with new G12 coolant.

Started up fine. No codes. No noticable smoking. Drove to AutoZone for new oil and in the rearview mirror noticed a large amount of white smoke. Never noticed any smoking before this.

Car is now smoking white smoke, but runs good. Losing coolant very quickly in the reservoir. No external leaks can be seen. No oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil. But again, lots of white smoke along with loss of coolant. No red flashing light, engine temperature is fine.

Sounds like a head gasket, right?

BUT...compression is GREAT. Compression test shows all cylinders between 175-185. They hold steady pressure; none leak down fast. Stand alone leak-down test has been done yet.

Granted, I have NOT done the proper burping procedure to get out any possible air pockets. But air pockets won't cause white smoke, right?


What is wrong? If the compression is OK, shouldn't the head gasket be OK? What else will cause white smoke in the exhaust and loss of coolant so quickly? Could it be the turbo?

Please help...

Thanks again!
Jeff

Last edited by ggoat!!!; 12-05-2012 at 07:30 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:22 PM
Wife's 01 1.8T mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location:
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Car: 01 1.8T Sport, 00 TDI Jetta (and a bunch of GM V8s)
Default

Head gasket, or, coolant being sucked into the turbo perhaps? How's the oil look?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:29 PM
Smileybug's Avatar
5/23/10 <3
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Cary, NC, USA
Car: 1999 Techno Blue GL 2.0 5-speed (RIP), 1984 Jetta GL TD, 2003 20th GTI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggoat!!! View Post
also flushed with new R12 coolant.
I seriously hope you mean G12 R12 is a refrigerant!
__________________
The Past Ride: Darla, 102k, '99 New Beetle GL 5-speed. Bone stock. Acquired 4/6/05. Gave her life for me 8/17/11. RIP
The Project: Klaus, 180k+, '84 Jetta GL Turbo Diesel. Rebuilt and bringing 50+ mpg. Slightly improved from stock Acquired 7/12/08
The Baby Brother: GŁnther, 129k, 20th Anniversary Edition GTI
The money saver:2001 Jetta TDI GL. 132k. Dead auto, swapped to 3 pedals. Hubby's DD and our trip car
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:31 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default

Whoooooops...G12 ha ha.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:33 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboturbo View Post
Head gasket, or, coolant being sucked into the turbo perhaps? How's the oil look?
The oil looks fine. There is no oil in the coolant and no coolant in the oil.

However...I haven't had the chance yet to research what the signs of a failing turbo are as I've never had any issues with mine. Would a failing turbo cause white smoke and loss of coolant?

As I asked prior...how could it be the head gasket if all cylinders have great compression?

Thanks again,
Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:11 PM
IndyTom's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location:
Indianapolis, IN, USA
Car: 2012 Tornado Red VW Beetle Tsi
Default

Does the white smoke go away after the engine warmed up? During colder weather condensation is very common which in turn causes the white smoke, however after about 20 minutes or so the white smoke should be gone.

Since you just did the water pump and it hasn't smoked prior to your timing belt and water pump replacement I would retrace your steps. perhaps the water pump didn't seat properly and somehow coolant is sucked into the combustion chamber.
Did you try and smell the white smoke? Doest it smell like coolant or oil? You said you are refilling your coolant reservoir. How much coolant are you using/loosing on a daily basis? Have you checked the oil cap to see if there is any condensation or milky substance. Does smoke exit the Crankcase when you open up the oil cap? Did you check the oil pressure?

I still say it is something that has to do with your recent timing belt and water pump replacement. Were you careful with the jack underneath the car when you removed the motormounts? I know of some people that have pinched an oil line underneath by placing the jack incorrectly or raised the engine too high.

I hope you find the cause soon! Keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:27 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyTom View Post
Does the white smoke go away after the engine warmed up? During colder weather condensation is very common which in turn causes the white smoke, however after about 20 minutes or so the white smoke should be gone.

Since you just did the water pump and it hasn't smoked prior to your timing belt and water pump replacement I would retrace your steps. perhaps the water pump didn't seat properly and somehow coolant is sucked into the combustion chamber.
Did you try and smell the white smoke? Doest it smell like coolant or oil? You said you are refilling your coolant reservoir. How much coolant are you using/loosing on a daily basis? Have you checked the oil cap to see if there is any condensation or milky substance. Does smoke exit the Crankcase when you open up the oil cap? Did you check the oil pressure?

I still say it is something that has to do with your recent timing belt and water pump replacement. Were you careful with the jack underneath the car when you removed the motormounts? I know of some people that have pinched an oil line underneath by placing the jack incorrectly or raised the engine too high.

I hope you find the cause soon! Keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know
Hi there...

It never stops smoking.

Smoke smells like coolant. I'm not adding fluid on a daily basis because I'm not driving the car. It was driven about 10 miles to AutoZone and back and that was it. It has been idled a few times in the driveway. It will lose 1/4" of coolant in several minutes. It's fast.

There's no milky substance on the oil cap, and there is no smoke. The engine idle changes a bit when you remove the oil cap while idling, but it always did this since new.

I haven't yet checked the oil pressure, It's not losing any oil, and the oil looks fine.

Nothing that I can see was pinched while it was jacked up.


I'm still trying to find out if a failing turbo can cause white smoke and rapid coolant loss like this.

Thanks,
Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:03 PM
IndyTom's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location:
Indianapolis, IN, USA
Car: 2012 Tornado Red VW Beetle Tsi
Default

Hmm, sound like a very interesting problem. I believe a failing Turbo can cause smoke but it would more than likely be smoke from oil not coolant. You could pull the TIP and see how much play the shaft has. That sometimes is a good indication if the Turbo is going bad. I just don't think so.
You didn't have any issues until you did the Timing belt and water pump service so something must have happened during that procedure that caused this smoking issue.
You could do a leakdown test to see if there is an issue with the headgasket.
Hopefully you solve that mystery soon!.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:50 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default

Here is a picture of the smoke while it is idling just under a minute:
Attached Images/Files
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:10 AM
FuzzyFish's Avatar
Title User Custom
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location:
Charleston, SC, USA
Car: 86 Corolla SR-5
Default

Sounds like either a bad turbo seal. Really odd headgasket failure.

Or (And this is a long shot) from a generic trouble shooting stand point a small coolant line and vaccum line are crossed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:21 AM
bme's Avatar
bmeNewBeetle.org Member Sponsor bme is offline
Member Sponsor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location:
Goodyear, AZ, AZ, USA
Car: 2003 Turbo S
Default

A leak down test would be more accurate than a compression test. I have seen good compression and a problem show up through a leak down test. Compression test will only show a major problem.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:32 PM
IndyTom's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location:
Indianapolis, IN, USA
Car: 2012 Tornado Red VW Beetle Tsi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyFish View Post
Or (And this is a long shot) from a generic trouble shooting stand point a small coolant line and vaccum line are crossed.
That actually doesn't sound too far fetched. Since the OP just did the Timing belt/Water pump service. Perhaps he did mix up a line during reinstallation?
I think something similar happened to a couple of friends of mine when they did the timing belt service on their 2001 Audi TT 1.8. Hmm, I can't find the post about what they did wrong but it had something to do with a coolant hose and or valve.
Since this issue started "after" the timing belt service was performed it logically points to some thing that happened during this procedure. I don't think it's a bad Turbo. It wouldn't smoke like that during idle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2013, 09:17 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default

Hi everyone...

Here's an update, and a new dilemma.

As stated in this thread after the water pump and timing belt were changed, after a little test driving the car started puffing white smoke. It did not smoke whatsoever immediately after the water pump died. Had good compression in all cylinders. But, it still puffed white smoke as in the pictures above in this thread and was losing coolant super fast.

So, everything was torn down again. Had the head milled and installed a new headgasket.

The idling white smoke stopped, and the car runs pretty good. It's not losing coolant. No codes.

But, at higher RPMs the car NOW smokes...and there is also a little oil in the downpipe. No noise in the turbo, the car has power, no lag, no hesitation...runs fine, just smokes at high revs.

So...it looks like it IS after all the turbo???

What are the odds that the turbo JUST HAPPENED to fail at the exact same time the water pump went out?

I can't for the life of me figure out how the water pump, head gasket, and turbo all went out at the same exact time.

Any ideas? Sounds like the turbo to me...what else could cause the symptoms I'm having?


Thanks,
Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 01:03 AM
PRM502STREET's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location:
MARBLE FALLS, TX, USA
Car: PEDRO 99 BEETLE GLS
Default Re: White Smoke But GOOD Compression After Waterpump & Timing Belt Change

Sounds like the turbo went south. And yes, it happens!

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using AutoGuide.Com Free App
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 03:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Knoxville, TN,
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggoat!!! View Post
What are the odds that the turbo JUST HAPPENED to fail at the exact same time the water pump went out?
0% of this happening... unless some one starts a thread saying right after the local VW dealer did the water pump and now the turbo looks bad. Then everyone will claim it must of been the dealer screwing it up.

But yeah, crap like this can happen. I dealt with a shop today that did a timing belt/water pump on a 2003 GTi, now the car won't start. Only getting 3 volts to the injectors, but has good battery voltage at the fuse. Car ran fine prior to the job. I have no clue how these weird things happen, but they do.
__________________
Pencilneck blah blah blah

OEM Wheel Database....
http://www.4130-products.com/wheels

5052 @ $8000 = total crap
VAG COM @ $350 = sanity
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Rochester, NY,
Car: 1999 GL 2.0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggoat!!! View Post
What are the odds that the turbo JUST HAPPENED to fail at the exact same time the water pump went out?
Maybe higher than you think. The coolant lines to the turbo are fairly long and narrow. When the water pump fails and the pressure that it can generate goes down the first thing to suffer will be the flow through the turbocharger. I'll bet that the body of the turbocharger cracked and that allows coolant to flow into the intake without affecting the oil. When the turbo was removed from the head to replace the head gasket the stress in the metal was relieved and the crack closed up. Now the crack opens at high temperature instead of low.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 11:45 AM
PRM502STREET's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location:
MARBLE FALLS, TX, USA
Car: PEDRO 99 BEETLE GLS
Default Re: White Smoke But GOOD Compression After Waterpump & Timing Belt Change

Check out XSboost I think it's.com, they have really good deals, and a quality product also.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using AutoGuide.Com Free App
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:45 PM
lovebug1959's Avatar
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location:
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Car: 1999 New Beetle GLS 2.0 Automatic
Smile

Just throwing this out there...Is your coolant level staying full but still smoking white exhaust?
When oil is burning you get blue smoke.
When coolant is burning you get white smoke.
I'm a retired mechanic and used to work mostly on domestic brands. When a head gasket failed it would sometimes pass a fair amount of liquid coolant into the muffler chambers and during the road test after the head gasket replacement it would smoke heavily on the highway but would only occur once the engine reached peak operating temperature at higher engine speeds. This would occur because the exhaust would have to get pretty hot to start burning the residual liquid coolant left inside the mufflers. Perhaps this is totally unrelated to your situation but just wanted you to know about this phenomenon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:33 PM
Smileybug's Avatar
5/23/10 <3
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Cary, NC, USA
Car: 1999 Techno Blue GL 2.0 5-speed (RIP), 1984 Jetta GL TD, 2003 20th GTI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red99 View Post
Maybe higher than you think. The coolant lines to the turbo are fairly long and narrow. When the water pump fails and the pressure that it can generate goes down the first thing to suffer will be the flow through the turbocharger. I'll bet that the body of the turbocharger cracked and that allows coolant to flow into the intake without affecting the oil. When the turbo was removed from the head to replace the head gasket the stress in the metal was relieved and the crack closed up. Now the crack opens at high temperature instead of low.
I didn't think the turbos on these used coolant? I thought they were just oil cooled?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 04:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Rochester, NY,
Car: 1999 GL 2.0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smileybug View Post
I didn't think the turbos on these used coolant? I thought they were just oil cooled?
My manual for the '99 shows 2 oil lines and 2 coolant lines all going to the turbo with banjo connectors. Maybe they changed it at some point.

Edit: The oil return is not a banjo.

Last edited by red99; 02-02-2013 at 04:09 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the NewBeetle.org Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OK so Dee-Bug got it's Timing belt/Waterpump done... Dee-Bug 1.9 Liter TDI 0 02-15-2012 09:50 PM
2001 New Beetle Timing Belt/waterpump? Buggoff 2.0 Liter Gas 7 01-20-2010 03:45 AM
WaterPump/Timing belt replacement leads to CEL and P2181 code skyscan Questions, Issues, Concerns, or Problems with the New Beetle 17 11-16-2009 05:18 AM
04 Beetle/waterpump/timing belt ect? Hulker28 2.0 Liter Gas 3 07-21-2008 01:08 AM
Timing belt kit any good? jesse 1.8 Liter Turbo 5 06-01-2007 01:34 PM

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:19 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2