Strange issue...

[buggirl92]

Last night my headlights, turn signals, windshield wipers, heat, and maybe more stuff I haven't found yet stopped working. I'm about to resort to taking it to the stealership because I drive a lot at night. Any ideas what could be wrong with my baby?

[Smileybug]

Sounds like ignition switch to me.

[IndyTom]

If you can get the car scanned for codes and post them here.

I agree with Smileybug a failing ignition switch can effect the electronic functions of the systems you mentioned especially if they went out all at the same time.

Fortunately it is an easy fix as long as the wiring harness is in tact.

If it is the ignition switch one of these should do the trick:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...nition_Switch/

Here is a DIY with pics. Takes about 30 minutes to install.

VWVortex.com - **Ignition Switch Replacement DIY**

PS: The stealership will charge you about 90 bucks for the part and $200 for installation. So you can pay about $300 bucks taking it to the dealer or less than 20 bucks doing it yourself.

[dnyed]

Ignition switch! All of the things you mention, need the key to be on to work. I know from experience.

[buggirl92]

Sorry I haven't responded!! It was in fact the ignition switch.
I went to the local VW Stealership to get it diagnosed..

When I walked in, I actually told the "Service Advisor" (seriously, he just sits there on the computer doing...nothing) that I thought it was the ignition switch, based on stuff I read on the forum and just online in general... He looked at me (I'm a 20 year old female, I obviously do not work on cars or know anything about them) and told me, "there's no way it's your ignition switch, your car wouldn't be able to start."

2 hour later... "Oh, so it was actually the ignition switch." Uh Hello! I told you that dummy!!! Oh well.

$300 later and my headlights work again. :]

[dnyed]

That service advisor is an idiot.

My Beetle friends diagnosed my ignition switch, it made perfect sense, and when I took it in, I just said "Put one in. Don't charge me for a diagnosis". All was well after it was replaced.

[buggirl92]

Volkswagen of South Charlotte (it's in Pineville, NC) actually has a $50 diagnosis fee IF you don't get it repaired with them. Otherwise there's no diagnosis fee. I feel like They did charge me in labor for the diagnosis though.. It took him 30 minutes or less to put on the new ignition switch AND a car wash... yet labor was $200? So that's annoying that I told him what it was, and I probably got charged for him to check other parts. :| oh well.

[bme]

Originally Posted by buggirl92

Sorry I haven't responded!! It was in fact the ignition switch.
I went to the local VW Stealership to get it diagnosed..

When I walked in, I actually told the "Service Advisor" (seriously, he just sits there on the computer doing...nothing) that I thought it was the ignition switch, based on stuff I read on the forum and just online in general... He looked at me (I'm a 20 year old female, I obviously do not work on cars or know anything about them) and told me, "there's no way it's your ignition switch, your car wouldn't be able to start."

2 hour later... "Oh, so it was actually the ignition switch." Uh Hello! I told you that dummy!!! Oh well.

$300 later and my headlights work again. :]

First of all, that guy is whacked. That said, I can tell you as a former tech and former "service advisor", that job is not easy. Imagine having a job where people bring their cars in for repairs. How many people want to take their car to have it repaired? Your entire job is to give people bad news! Most of service advisors, unfortunately, know nothing about cars, which makes them dangerous. That said, I can tell you it is a very stressful job dealing with people who are pissed and hoping your tech diagnoses the problem correctly so they don't have to bring the car back again and yell at you. I won't say I trust dealers or defend their ways (I will even say most are scumbags) but the job is not easy. Just sayin, ;-)


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[dnyed]

I worked in auto service many years ago. The service advisors were more knowledgable than they are today, in my opinion.

Last month, I paid $75 for VW to tell me I needed a thermostat. What I really needed was a waterpump.

[Smileybug]

I'd say something to the manager of the dealer if you feel like you weren't charged correctly. I will say though I can understand them wanting to diagnose it themselves. Its just like going to the doctor and saying "I read this stuff on the internet and I think xyz is what's wrong with me! Just treat me for that." They want to ensure that you don't come back at them for not fixing the problem. If they replace the part you ask them to and it doesn't fix it, then they don't want you saying "Well, that didn't fix it. So why did you charge me and not actually fix it?!" I'm not trying to say that all dealers are honest/know what they are doing though. I did the same to a dealer once ("this is broken, can you fix it?") and they gave me the same thing of "well it may not be so we have to diagnose it first" and honestly it couldn't really be anything else. Charged me to diagnose what I knew was wrong. I did feel more like they did it because I was a young female (I was 18 at the time). But it is what it is. That's also why I have never taken my car to the dealer since then...and that was back in '05.

Try to find a local shop. If you are near Charlotte, I'd give Eurowise a try. Not sure about SC shops.

[jfoj]

[QUOTE=bme;822314]First of all, that guy is whacked. That said, I can tell you as a former tech and former "service advisor", that job is not easy. Imagine having a job where people bring their cars in for repairs. How many people want to take their car to have it repaired? Your entire job is to give people bad news! Most of service advisors, unfortunately, know nothing about cars, which makes them dangerous. That said, I can tell you it is a very stressful job dealing with people who are pissed and hoping your tech diagnoses the problem correctly so they don't have to bring the car back again and yell at you. I won't say I trust dealers or defend their ways (I will even say most are scumbags) but the job is not easy. Just sayin, ;-)

If the dealerships and service advisers did not try to empty every last dollar out of the customers wallet each time the car comes into the dealership because this may be the last time they ever see the car, then maybe the customers would not be so cranky about things.

The scare tactics and the fact that it always seems the dealer staff is after EVERY repair that can talk you into, then you can see why things are the way they are. The service advisers today are most clueless and this is partially the dealers fault, they need to train and educate the staff and also hire more knowledgeable people. Also many dealers need a QA person to call BS on the technicians, service advisers and make sure the problems are really resolved. The service advisers are told to be VERY vague on the service orders to leave WAY too much leeway for the dealer to get warranty or sell other services to the customer. This makes it a bit harder for the technician to really know what the customer is complaining about.

I have been on all sides and to this day I cannot figure out why the Service Advisers can't even read and understand the 1-2 paragraph new car warranty?? I was told I needed to spend $375 for a new battery on one of my cars that has a 48 month/50k mile bumper to bumper warranty when the car was clearly within this window. Then when I informed the service adviser the battery was a covered item, they argued with me. Then the when to check and came back and told me that it might be covered if there were not extenuating circumstances!

It's a flipping battery, you cannot maintain it as it is maintenance free. As long as it was not damaged in an accident, the only thing that a customer can do is leave the headlights on and on many cars, the lights turn off with the key. Even leaving the lights on and draining a less than 4 year old battery should not fully put the battery out to pasture.

Where the hell is the customer is always right or at least respect them and treat them like a family member, not the next door neighbor that is moving overseas next well?

[bme]

[QUOTE=jfoj;822352]

Originally Posted by bme

First of all, that guy is whacked. That said, I can tell you as a former tech and former "service advisor", that job is not easy. Imagine having a job where people bring their cars in for repairs. How many people want to take their car to have it repaired? Your entire job is to give people bad news! Most of service advisors, unfortunately, know nothing about cars, which makes them dangerous. That said, I can tell you it is a very stressful job dealing with people who are pissed and hoping your tech diagnoses the problem correctly so they don't have to bring the car back again and yell at you. I won't say I trust dealers or defend their ways (I will even say most are scumbags) but the job is not easy. Just sayin, ;-)

If the dealerships and service advisers did not try to empty every last dollar out of the customers wallet each time the car comes into the dealership because this may be the last time they ever see the car, then maybe the customers would not be so cranky about things.

The scare tactics and the fact that it always seems the dealer staff is after EVERY repair that can talk you into, then you can see why things are the way they are. The service advisers today are most clueless and this is partially the dealers fault, they need to train and educate the staff and also hire more knowledgeable people. Also many dealers need a QA person to call BS on the technicians, service advisers and make sure the problems are really resolved. The service advisers are told to be VERY vague on the service orders to leave WAY too much leeway for the dealer to get warranty or sell other services to the customer. This makes it a bit harder for the technician to really know what the customer is complaining about.

I have been on all sides and to this day I cannot figure out why the Service Advisers can't even read and understand the 1-2 paragraph new car warranty?? I was told I needed to spend $375 for a new battery on one of my cars that has a 48 month/50k mile bumper to bumper warranty when the car was clearly within this window. Then when I informed the service adviser the battery was a covered item, they argued with me. Then the when to check and came back and told me that it might be covered if there were not extenuating circumstances!

It's a flipping battery, you cannot maintain it as it is maintenance free. As long as it was not damaged in an accident, the only thing that a customer can do is leave the headlights on and on many cars, the lights turn off with the key. Even leaving the lights on and draining a less than 4 year old battery should not fully put the battery out to pasture.

Where the hell is the customer is always right or at least respect them and treat them like a family member, not the next door neighbor that is moving overseas next well?

First of all, I agree with MOST of what you say, but not every Service Advisor, tech or dealer is like that.

If something needs to be covered under warranty it has to be documented, and although the battery thing was a total rip off to the customer, I can tell you that is one of the hardest claims to get paid under warranty. Volkswagen finally came out with some stupid tool that gave you a code if it tested the battery bad so you can just replace the stupid thing.

This is where I believe the entire system is broken.....

Service Advisors usually know nothing about cars and are just sales people who are paid on commission. They also need to know their techs, I used to call BS all the time and if the tech was a repeat offender I would go and check the car myself. Repair options need to be presented to the customer in order of need and if it is a matter of not being able to verify the problem, you had better let the customer know.

The flat rate system sucks! Techs that are paid by the job and doing mostly warranty work are always in a hurry and more likely to rush a job (not all, but most). This system sets up the tech , service advisor, dealer and everything to screw the customer! If manufacturers wanted better customer service they should have techs paid salary as a requirement. The stupid thing about rushing a job is they will be back flagged when it comes back and someone else fixes it anyway.

Warranty times suck! The manufacturer does not want to pay the tech what it actually takes to do the job, which adds to the problem with the flat rate system.

Spiffs should go away. The first dealer I worked at would have the techs fill out a form to suggest repairs on the car, if the service advisor sold them, they would get to roll one dice for every $100 sold and give it to the tech in cash. Hmmmm, can you say BS repairs?

Lastly dealers make little of their profit off of new car sales, it is mostly from parts, service and used cars. It is not cheap to operate a business the size of a car dealer, there are huge expenses to maintain and satisfy a manufacturer and meet requirements for warranty and such.

All that said, I still think their are dealers out there that love the Volkswagen brand and want to make it a pleasant experience for their customers, and a few that don't want to rob every person that comes in the door. As you said it definitely is the responsibility of the management and ownership.

I can definitely say, other than discount parts I am glad to be out of the car business.

LOL, one time I took my wife's mini van to the dealer for a check engine light and wrote "Diagnosis ONLY, $100 only". It turned out to be a cracked plug or something really simple. They tried to charge me like $200 because they threw a new plug in one of the cylinders. I told them I know the law and since I wrote an amount on their they could take the part back out because I was not paying 10% more than my estimate and they should have taken 2 minutes to call. Suddenly the labor rate was cut in half and I was out the door for $110. Of course the tech did not even check the other plugs and their was another cracked one I replaced. As a service advisor I would do stuff like that for customers just because I wanted to meet the estimate I gave them, have the tech put replaced parts in a bag so they could see what we did. As a tech I would document the heck out of the Repair Orders and ALWAYS coded my own warranty and got paid well.

IMHO, the whole system is based too much on time and pressure and is set up for failure. But my point above was that not all dealers are bad, most, but not all.

Sorry for the rant and the thread hi-jack.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by buggirl92

Sorry I haven't responded!! It was in fact the ignition switch.
I went to the local VW Stealership to get it diagnosed..

When I walked in, I actually told the "Service Advisor" (seriously, he just sits there on the computer doing...nothing) that I thought it was the ignition switch, based on stuff I read on the forum and just online in general... He looked at me (I'm a 20 year old female, I obviously do not work on cars or know anything about them) and told me, "there's no way it's your ignition switch, your car wouldn't be able to start."

2 hour later... "Oh, so it was actually the ignition switch." Uh Hello! I told you that dummy!!! Oh well.

$300 later and my headlights work again. :]

Hey, my estimate was spot on Dealerships have a service book they go by. Even if the actual time is much less to install a particular part they will charge you the labor hours listed in their VW Service book. Oh, wait you said they washed your car. Then that explains it. 30 minutes putting in your switch and 1 1/2 hours washing and detailing your car

[bme]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Hey, my estimate was spot on Dealerships have a service book they go by. Even if the actual time is much less to install a particular part they will charge you the labor hours listed in their VW Service book. Oh, wait you said they washed your car. Then that explains it. 30 minutes putting in your switch and 1 1/2 hours washing and detailing your car

Yeah, flat rate time for car wash is 1.5 hours, LOL.



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[buggirl92]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Hey, my estimate was spot on Dealerships have a service book they go by. Even if the actual time is much less to install a particular part they will charge you the labor hours listed in their VW Service book. Oh, wait you said they washed your car. Then that explains it. 30 minutes putting in your switch and 1 1/2 hours washing and detailing your car

If you call spraying your car with a water hose "washing" it then yeah. ahah.

I'll actually be taking my car back there in the spring.. Theres a few noises going on in the engine, need a third brake light, my catalytic converter is bad (but I live in SC so I'm probably just goin to remove it altogether.) blah blah blah etc etc.

[Smileybug]

I definitely suggest checking out Eurowise rather than going to the dealer. They're in Charlotte and a good indy shop.

[buggirl92]

Well on Thursday of this week, my headlights and everything else stopped working... AGAIN.

I took it back on Friday morning and they did a diagnosis. The part they put in there the first time was faulty and they're replacing it for free.

I told them to keep it as long as they need too... They gave me a 2013 Passat to drive haha.

[dtm kafer]

I carry a spare switch in the glove box .and tools to replace it. they should just put them in there from the factory like you would a tire or fuse's

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by buggirl92

Well on Thursday of this week, my headlights and everything else stopped working... AGAIN.

I took it back on Friday morning and they did a diagnosis. The part they put in there the first time was faulty and they're replacing it for free.

I told them to keep it as long as they need too... They gave me a 2013 Passat to drive haha.

Tell them to keep the Beetle and you keep the Passat

Very odd for a new ignition switch to go out. But I guess it can happen. I wonder if they took a good look at the wiring which could be bad as well in those old beetle's and if they don't fix it along with the switch the new switch will just keep burning out.

Hopefully, that won't happen. Good Luck!

[scarabY2k]

Originally Posted by dtm kafer

I carry a spare switch in the glove box .and tools to replace it. they should just put them in there from the factory like you would a tire or fuse's

same here

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Tell them to keep the Beetle and you keep the Passat

Very odd for a new ignition switch to go out. But I guess it can happen. I wonder if they took a good look at the wiring which could be bad as well in those old beetle's and if they don't fix it along with the switch the new switch will just keep burning out.

Hopefully, that won't happen. Good Luck!

I had one go out pretty quickly too. Bought one in Feb. '09, had it crap out in June of the same year.

Tom your wire assessment was my beetle's issue. There was what looked like heat/age related wear, right around the connector to the ig switch. Went to a slavage yard & got a switch, along with it's connector and 6" of the wire pigtail. Clipped off Cup's original connector and butt connected the new switch/connector in.

I question the quality of VW's wire quality; that or the load is too great for th ig switch circuitry... why would the connector heat up like that?


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