New forum rule suggestion...

[Audiophil]

Here is new rule that might help the forum... Have seen a few questionable posts over the years and this might be a good idea. Same thing as before, once you are warned, second time and you are banned:

-Calling any model year Beetle: Hitler's car, girl car, or gay car.

Hitler drove (or rather was chauffered around in) a Mercedes Benz. Males also make up 40%+ of the purchasers (according to VW) and the majority are married/not gay.

This makes sense to me on VW board... along with the usual, no cheap name calling etc...

OK, Discuss...

[Bob]

I solidly agree with everything said. Especially the gay car bit. Preach it brotha.

[Lmhansen]

It's not called "Hitlers' car" because he drove/was driven in it, but because it was his initiative to produce a cheap car for everyone.

Also, if 40% of the buyers are men, then the majority are women, so you kinda defeated your own argument there.

Outright banning the use of certain "names" are wrong. Names in themselves are not damaging, hurtfull or wrong, it's all about the context in which the name is used, and the context is often determined on other things than the use of a single word...

Take the word "Dick". "Dick" in and of itself should not be considered offensive, unless it's placed in a context where it is clear that it is not used as a name rather a reference to a part of the male anatomy.

[73standard]

Nothing like PC Nazis. This has to be one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while.
Shoot, I call my '73 the Fuhrerwagen, or my Hitlermobile.

[Bob]

I'm still on board for the gay bit. Preach it brotha!

[Lmhansen]

Originally Posted by Bob

I'm still on board for the gay bit. Preach it brotha!

Unfortunately, any decree on here that it's not a "gay car" isn't going to change the public perception. Again, context!

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Lmhansen

Unfortunately, any decree on here that it's not a "gay car" isn't going to change the public perception. Again, context!

Stop it .

[KittenPoker]

Shoot, I'd rather have a gay car than some SUV or minivan that just littered the parking lot at Spencer's school during the PTA meeting. Good grief! I was so happy to see the Mustang!

[boblamb58]

Originally Posted by Audiophil

Here is new rule that might help the forum... Have seen a few questionable posts over the years and this might be a good idea. Same thing as before, once you are warned, second time and you are banned:

-Calling any model year Beetle: Hitler's car, girl car, or gay car.

Hitler drove (or rather was chauffered around in) a Mercedes Benz. Males also make up 40%+ of the purchasers (according to VW) and the majority are married/not gay.

This makes sense to me on VW board... along with the usual, no cheap name calling etc...

OK, Discuss...

Hitler.. granted, he was pretty much a monster, but if it wasn't for him, there would have never been a Volkswagen. He was instrumental in getting that company started. Read "Small Wonder" or "Battle for the Beetle".

Girl car? I've seen plenty of girls AND guys driving them. Although I would have to conced mostly it's girls I've seen. All the obvious TDI's though, seem to have guys driving them.

Gay? Yes, I am quite happy.. and no, I am not homosexual. Not saying it's good or bad, it just is. How can an inanimate object be "gay"? (in either sense of the word).

Now, as far as name calling, well, now that could be a problem. Play nice, people

[73standard]

Originally Posted by Lmhansen

Unfortunately, any decree on here that it's not a "gay car" isn't going to change the public perception. Again, context!

Exactly.

[boblamb58]

Originally Posted by KittenPoker

Shoot, I'd rather have a gay car than some SUV or minivan that just littered the parking lot at Spencer's school during the PTA meeting. Good grief! I was so happy to see the Mustang!

Gay car getting nearly 45 mpg? As Quagmire so eloquently puts it "Oh Yeah!"

[mrbeetlebrain]

Originally Posted by 73standard

Nothing like PC Nazis. This has to be one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while.

I agree with Chad - wouldn't this forum need more members rather than fewer.

[D2Beetle]

Originally Posted by Lmhansen

... Outright banning the use of certain "names" are wrong. Names in themselves are not damaging, hurtfull or wrong, it's all about the context in which the name is used, and the context is often determined on other things than the use of a single word...

Take the word "Dick". "Dick" in and of itself should not be considered offensive, unless it's placed in a context where it is clear that it is not used as a name rather a reference to a part of the male anatomy.

I agree that banning any single word assumes that it has a unilateral definition without understanding the context of the statement.

No wonder there is a language barrier today.

[Audiophil]

Originally Posted by 73standard

Nothing like PC Nazis. This has to be one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while.
Shoot, I call my '73 the Fuhrerwagen, or my Hitlermobile.

Well that is weak... Hitler basically wrote a check. Dr. Porsche designed and drove the beetle. From now on, I will call my Bug, Dr. Porsche's car.

The Hitler comment is the one that bothers me the most. I never really understood the gay/chick car thing, but calling it Hitler's car is way out of line.

I guess like you all said... it comes down to context. If you were a new member and said, "hey, can you all help me with my new chick/Hitler car" you should get a warning is all I am saying. I mean we can't even use "bad" words or partial "bad" words so why not even more control?

[niki]

My car is gay... it's a very happy little bubble, thank you very much!!!

[yellowherbie]

Originally Posted by bmxbugzzi

My car is gay... it's a very happy little bubble, thank you very much!!!

THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!

Id rather have people call my car gay, then ugly...

[Shay]

hitler car ...

eh my boss calls my car a nazi car all the time never really bothered me. If someone wants to associate my car with hitler fine with me I love my car and I hate hitler.

[from Margaritaville...]

Frankly, I think the rules are just fine as they are. Transgressors usually get called out in short order and "the mods" do a fine job isolating the over-emotional posts...

* but that's just me...

[boblamb58]

Originally Posted by Audiophil

Well that is weak... Hitler basically wrote a check. Dr. Porsche designed and drove the beetle. From now on, I will call my Bug, Dr. Porsche's car.

The Hitler comment is the one that bothers me the most. I never really understood the gay/chick car thing, but calling it Hitler's car is way out of line.

If you read the history you will find that Herr Hitler did much more than "write a check".

He had very little to do with the actual design of the car, but he was the one who pushed Porsche to design it, as well as steal money from the German people to finance his Volkswagenwerk factory.

(and no, I am NOT defending Hitler.)

Again, find a history book... get your facts right

[DannyRandomState]

Originally Posted by boblamb58

If you read the history you will find that Herr Hitler did much more than "write a check".

He had very little to do with the actual design of the car, but he was the one who pushed Porsche to design it, as well as steal money from the German people to finance his Volkswagenwerk factory.

(and no, I am NOT defending Hitler.)

Again, find a history book... get your facts right

Thank you.



Literally, the word "volkswagen" means "people's car." In Germany, the idea of a people's car wasn't exactly a new one. Before the 1930's, there had been many efforts to create simple cars that everyone could afford, but none met with profound success. Almost all cars before 1930, even if they were designed to be simple enough for the average person, ended up costing more than the average worker's yearly wage.

Meanwhile, the year is 1930, and Ferdinand Porsche had just set up an automotive design company, which became known as the Porsche Büro. The company patented a sophisticated independent front suspension system, which consisted of transversely mounted torsion bars connected to two trailing arms on each side. At the time, this was lighter than most other common types of suspension. In 1931, a German motorcycle company, Zündapp, asked Porsche if he could design a suitable car for them. Porsche came up with a streamlined 2 door sedan, which had lines similar to the Beetle. It was designated the Type 12. Zündapp wanted to put in a 1.2 liter radial engine from one of their motorcycles...this was the end of the line for this design, as it didn't make it any further.

Porsche then designed a car for NSU in 1933 that was known as the Type 32. This car looked even more similar to the upcoming KdF Wagen than the Type 12 did. This car looked similar to the Tatra V570, and shared many mechanical similarities. After World War II, the Volkswagen company paid Tatra for compensation, since Tatra believed its technology and design was pirated in development of the KdF Wagen. Eventaully, NSU dropped the Type 32 project.

Later in 1933, Adolf Hitler met with Ferdinand Porsche to discuss Hitler's idea of a volkswagen. Hitler proposed a people's car that could carry 5 people, cruise up to 62mph, return 33mpg, and cost only 1000 Reich Marks. This was an opportunity for Porsche to push his idea of a small car foward, as was it to help Hitler get a real people's car for the citizens of Germany.

Initially, Porsche designated this design the Type 60, but it was soon changed to the V1 (experimental 1). Hitler also proposed to have a convertible version produced: it was designated V2. Porsche was not able to make the deadline to finish the first two prototypes, as there was not enough time to physically design the cars and to built them. In any case, they were completed and driving by 1935. Soon, the V1 design was updated, and three cars were produced. This new design was the VW3. These cars were put through rigorous testing in 1936.

These cars looked very similar to the KdF Wagen, that was to appear later. Eventually, the VW3s had metal floors, swing axle rear transmissions, Porsche's front independed suspensions, and backbone floorpans. Several engines were tested, and eventually a flat four cylinder aircooled four stroke engine was chosen. Surprisingly, the engine that was chosen was cheaper and more reliable than some of the four cylinder two stroke engines that were tested. This 22.5 hp four cylinder "boxer" engine was roughly the same as the engines that would later be incorporated into Volkswagen Beetles that are still produced today.

After data was collected from the tests of the VW3s, the next version, the VW30 was created, and in all, 30 were produced. Due to Hitler's regime, control of the company and testing of the VW30 was given to a government organization called the DAF. Now, members of the SS were required to drive the VW30s to confirm that all the problems of the V3s were fixed. For the most part, these tests showed that most of the problems in earlier cars had been fixed.

In 1938, construction began on the KdF Wagen factory, and on the town that was going to be next to the factory. In 1939, several VW38s (pre-production) and VW39s (demonstration cars) were produced just to show that the factory did work, and to show what the final version of the car would look like. These cars were different from their predecessors in that they had front hinged doors (all the VW designs before had "suicide" doors), split windows in the rear, larger hoods, and many other minor differences. This edition of the car was the basis of the Beetle after the war was over.

When the V38s were introduced, Hitler abruptly changed the name of the car to KdF Wagen. KdF stood for "Kraft durch Freude" which meant "Strength through Joy." This upset Porsche, as he was not a member of the Nazi party, and he didn't support Hitler's use of propaganda when advertising the car.

The German government sold special stamps that could eventually be used to purchase a real KdF Wagen. In theory, as soon as 200 stamps were collected, they could be redeemed for a car. However, the KdF Wagen was not to be, and it never progressed beyond the prototype/demonstration stage. In later years, many people who collected these stamps took Volkswagen to court seeking compensation, since VW never made good on the KdF stamps. The KdF Wagen factory was busy pumping out Type 82s: Kübelwagens. The Kübelwagen was a simple looking military vehicle that basically used the same parts as the KdF Wagen, but had a flat-sided body, and increased ground clearance. It was essentially the Germany's "jeep" in WWII. During the war, the company also produced an amphibious vehicle, which was known as the Type 128, and later as the Type 166: the Schwimmwagen. This vehicle was powered by a 25hp engine, and had a retractable ducted propeller in the rear for water use. In the water, the Schwimmwagen could achieve up to 5mph, and surprisingly steered in the water with its front tires. There were over 50,000 Type 82s produced, and less than 16,000 Schwimmwagens produced during the war. There were several military off-shoots of the KdF Wagen produced during the war:

Kommandeurwagen: KdF Wagen with ragtop sunroof, four-wheel drive, increased ground clearance

Papler: The Papler company built several four door versions of the KdF Wagen for use in parades and for police

Hebmüller: Hebmüller produced hundreds of custom two seat KdF Wagen convertibles

Porsche even experimented with very unusual powerplants, such as a wood-gas engine, compressed CO2 engines (very short range), and more.

The KdF Wagen factory was a prime target for allied forces during the war, and before long, it was partially destroyed. After the war was over, the British Army took over the factory. The British were interested in the factory, because they needed light transportation: what else could they do? The factory was brought back up (it was still damaged, however) with leadership provided by Major Ivan Hirst of the British Army, and by the end of 1945, had produced more than 2000 cars. Most of them were produced from spare parts that were left in the factory. Within a year, the factory had produced over 10,000 cars, all thanks to assistance from the British government. Sometime after 1945, the company was named Volkswagen by the British, who also renamed the town at the factory "Wolfsburg", which was the name of a local castle. The British sought to give control of the company to able hands: the Ford company turned the offer down because it thought it would be a waste of money, the French government refused; nobody seemed to want the company. In 1949, the British government was finally able to relinquish control of the company to the German government. Heinrich Nordhoff was appointed as the senior executive of Volkswagen, a move which proved to be a very good one.