valve body swap without pulling trans?

[geniushanbiao]

Hi all I have a question here. I have a '99 2.0L with O1M trans and it's still working good but a little bit delay on engaging the 1st and reverse. I believe if I swap the valve body with a new one it would be good but if I have to pull the trans I would rather do a complete rebuild. Therefore I'm wondering if we can swap the valve body with trans in place. I know that the valve body is just on the bottom and when changing trans fluid we can see the valve body. Anybody have this experience?

[D2Beetle]

If it were me, "... if isn't broke, don't fix it."

[geniushanbiao]

Originally Posted by D2Beetle

If it were me, "... if isn't broke, don't fix it."

Yes I tend to keep it at the current status until it fails. But I'm just wondering if it's possible to swap valve body without pulling the trans...

[VDubYah]

Yes you can. drain the fluid, Drop the pan. Remove the 4connectors to the soloniod valves, Be careful it is a flexible circuit and may be brittle. 4 bolts drop the valve body.

[IndyTom]

Yup, shouldn't be an issue. I have swapped Performance Valve Bodies and shift kits in my Ford Mustang and my Old Camaro before but never in a Beetle. But the principle I am sure is the same. However, those New Beetle Valve Bodies are EXPENSIVE and it's almost cheaper just to buy a whole new tranmission. If you put a used valve body in then you are taking a gamble of it being worse than the one you are taking out. Online there are some places that do sell the entire O1M 4 speed auto tranny for as low as 2000 bucks. But before I invest that many clams I would wait until the tranny really needs replacing.

[geniushanbiao]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

Yup, shouldn't be an issue. I have swapped Performance Valve Bodies and shift kits in my Ford Mustang and my Old Camaro before but never in a Beetle. But the principle I am sure is the same. However, those New Beetle Valve Bodies are EXPENSIVE and it's almost cheaper just to buy a whole new tranmission. If you put a used valve body in then you are taking a gamble of it being worse than the one you are taking out. Online there are some places that do sell the entire O1M 4 speed auto tranny for as low as 2000 bucks. But before I invest that many clams I would wait until the tranny really needs replacing.

Yep I got the answer from vwvortex. Actually there are some business who rebuild valve bodies and they charge from $360-$500 for a rebuilt one. Also I probably need to replace the wire harness and trans fluid so I'm looking to $500-700. They say that I can ask the dealer to special order a new valve body for $700. This is much cheaper than a new transmission.

[nitroman]

Just curious what are the symptoms of a bad valve body? Hard shifting? Or slipping? Or both? Stuck in limp mode? Lost a gear (e.g. only goes up to 3rd but no 4th)?

Because I assume that some other problems are related to other parts of the tranny.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by geniushanbiao

Yep I got the answer from vwvortex. Actually there are some business who rebuild valve bodies and they charge from $360-$500 for a rebuilt one. Also I probably need to replace the wire harness and trans fluid so I'm looking to $500-700. They say that I can ask the dealer to special order a new valve body for $700. This is much cheaper than a new transmission.

WOW, you must have an "IN" with the dealer. Most dealers I know charge between 1700 to 2200 for a new Valve Body. Of course that does include labor as well. But if you can get it for 700 and do the work yourself than yes it will be cheaper than a new transmission.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by nitroman

Just curious what are the symptoms of a bad valve body? Hard shifting? Or slipping? Or both? Stuck in limp mode? Lost a gear (e.g. only goes up to 3rd but no 4th)?

Because I assume that some other problems are related to other parts of the tranny.

The Valve body is kinda like the brain of the transmission. It controls when the transmission upshifts or downshifts.

The valve body is the control center of the automatic transmission. It contains a maze of channels and passages that direct hydraulic fluid to the numerous valves which then activate the appropriate clutch pack or band servo to smoothly shift to the appropriate gear for each driving situation. Each of the many valves in the valve body has a specific purpose and is named for that function. For example the 2-3 shift valve activates the 2nd gear to 3rd gear up-shift or the 3-2 shift timing valve which determines when a downshift should occur.

If any of the channels of this maze get blocked it will prevent the Transmission fluid to flow and there is insufficient line pressure to engage or disengage the appropriete clutch pack to switch gear.

If your transmission is slipping it can be something totally different than the valve body. Like the torque converter or the clutch packs themselves could be failing. HEAT is the Number ONE Killer of Automatic transmissions that's why a transmission cooler is always a good idea. All of the newer Automatics have one. I am not sure if the old style O1M 4 speed tranny does or not. From that heat the fluid breaks down and friction and heat increases inside the transmission. Over time the transmission can't take this abuse any longer and will just fail to function properly. I believe changing the transmission fluid on a regular basis (Every 40k-50k miles) and adding a proper transmission cooler could prevent premature failures.

[geniushanbiao]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

WOW, you must have an "IN" with the dealer. Most dealers I know charge between 1700 to 2200 for a new Valve Body. Of course that does include labor as well. But if you can get it for 700 and do the work yourself than yes it will be cheaper than a new transmission.

I'm not sure either since they told me about this and I haven't contacted the dealer. I'll call dealer later to verify.

[geniushanbiao]

About transmission cooler, O1M has a trans cooler mounted on top of the transmission and coolant pass through it too. However I doubt about this idea because normally coolant runs around 90-95C and the coolant that pass the trans is hotter than that probably 100C. Normally trans fluid runs at 140-160C so I'm in doubt about the cooling effect.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by geniushanbiao

About transmission cooler, O1M has a trans cooler mounted on top of the transmission and coolant pass through it too. However I doubt about this idea because normally coolant runs around 90-95C and the coolant that pass the trans is hotter than that probably 100C. Normally trans fluid runs at 140-160C so I'm in doubt about the cooling effect.

I am talking about a transmission fluid cooler. An actual cooler where the transmission fluid flows through not coolant.
It looks like a mini radiator and the fluid is directed through this radiator where it cools and then recirculates back into the transmission. I doubt the beetle has one of those.

[calisto6]

Originally Posted by geniushanbiao

Yep I got the answer from vwvortex. Actually there are some business who rebuild valve bodies and they charge from $360-$500 for a rebuilt one. Also I probably need to replace the wire harness and trans fluid so I'm looking to $500-700. They say that I can ask the dealer to special order a new valve body for $700. This is much cheaper than a new transmission.

Geniushanbiao, you mention being able to get rebuilt valve bodies, do you have a company name or website?

thanks!

Joe

[Stlbug]

Just google vw rebuilt valvebodies. Some of the companys claim their rebuilts ar better than origanal, having corrected the factory problem

[geniushanbiao]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

I am talking about a transmission fluid cooler. An actual cooler where the transmission fluid flows through not coolant.
It looks like a mini radiator and the fluid is directed through this radiator where it cools and then recirculates back into the transmission. I doubt the beetle has one of those.

Yes I'm talking about it too. This cooler has both trans fluid and coolant flow through it and exchange heat. They are separated by the wall and sometimes the wall fails, causing coolant and trans fluid mix so it needs replacement.

Trans coolers has 2 types one is to use coolant to cool the other is use air flow to cool. Now almost all cars with auto transmission has a coolant type transmission cooler but only some have another air flow cooler(which is called auxiliary cooler). But for other cars the coolant type cooler is always a part of the radiator and trans fluid runs a long metal pipe to it while beetle has this heat exchanger installed on transmission. No it doesn't have the auxiliary cooler. Also installing an auxiliary cooler is always a good idea on all auto transmission cars. Somebody say that if manufacturers install good transmission coolers on all cars then the transmission rebuild industry will be out of business. Normally on other cars since the coolant type cooler has the long metal pipe and it always use rubber hose for connection so we can put the auxiliary cooler in series with that. However on NBs it's probably impossible to install such coolers because there is no such rubber hose that run trans fluid so we need further modification. Using only air flow trans cooler is not a good idea since it will not be able to control trans fluid temperature.

[nitroman]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

The Valve body is kinda like the brain of the transmission. It controls when the transmission upshifts or downshifts.

The valve body is the control center of the automatic transmission. It contains a maze of channels and passages that direct hydraulic fluid to the numerous valves which then activate the appropriate clutch pack or band servo to smoothly shift to the appropriate gear for each driving situation. Each of the many valves in the valve body has a specific purpose and is named for that function. For example the 2-3 shift valve activates the 2nd gear to 3rd gear up-shift or the 3-2 shift timing valve which determines when a downshift should occur.

If any of the channels of this maze get blocked it will prevent the Transmission fluid to flow and there is insufficient line pressure to engage or disengage the appropriete clutch pack to switch gear.

If your transmission is slipping it can be something totally different than the valve body. Like the torque converter or the clutch packs themselves could be failing. HEAT is the Number ONE Killer of Automatic transmissions that's why a transmission cooler is always a good idea. All of the newer Automatics have one. I am not sure if the old style O1M 4 speed tranny does or not. From that heat the fluid breaks down and friction and heat increases inside the transmission. Over time the transmission can't take this abuse any longer and will just fail to function properly. I believe changing the transmission fluid on a regular basis (Every 40k-50k miles) and adding a proper transmission cooler could prevent premature failures.

Thanks for the tutorial, learning new stuff everyday

So then, it seems that it can be kinda hard diagnosing tranny problems, because shifting problems could be an issue in the valve body like blocked passages, but as you mentioned it could be some other component. So then how does everyone get to the point that they should try replacing (or rebuilding) the valve body? Is it like a "replace and see if that helps" kinda thing, or maybe more of a case-by-case analysis where you need to do a lot of tests to diagnose the problem and after exhaustive testing then one can pinpoint it down to the valve body? (if so do we have some kind of guide on the tests to do?)

I'm just trying to gather information so that when (inevitably) my notorious 01M tranny fails at least I can try to diagnose to see if can be fixed.

[Smileybug]

Most actually start with a fluid change and see if it helps anything. The valve bodies notoriously fail on the VW autos...VW even did an extended warranty on the valve bodies from '03+.

We have a Jetta TDI with a possibly dead auto. Gotta get more into it to see what the deal is. But we have a few codes, all pointing to different things, and the more people we ask about it, the more possibilities we're getting. If we could get it up and running again for cheap, we'd do it, but we also have a 5-speed swap donor lined up already so not much of a point.

I don't think its really worth too much time and money on these autos. They WILL fail entirely and there isn't much you can do about it.

[IndyTom]

Originally Posted by Smileybug

Most actually start with a fluid change and see if it helps anything. The valve bodies notoriously fail on the VW autos...VW even did an extended warranty on the valve bodies from '03+.

We have a Jetta TDI with a possibly dead auto. Gotta get more into it to see what the deal is. But we have a few codes, all pointing to different things, and the more people we ask about it, the more possibilities we're getting. If we could get it up and running again for cheap, we'd do it, but we also have a 5-speed swap donor lined up already so not much of a point.

I don't think its really worth too much time and money on these autos. They WILL fail entirely and there isn't much you can do about it.

X2
I am with Smileybug. Why waste your money on installing a new or rebuilt Valve body if the rest of the transmission may fail shortly after? I would change fluid for sure since new fluid that hasn't been totally contaminated will help. After that I would just drive it until it really needs to be replaced. There are some places that sell a brand new O1M transmission for around 2k which isn't too bad compared to dealership prices.

[geniushanbiao]

I've already drain+refill it several times and replaced at least 5 filters. The problem is not that serious but both my wife and I can feel the trans abnormal. As far as my knowledge the clutches are still good and if I rebuild or replace the valve body now then I'll possibly have another 100k miles life on this trans. If I don't then there's a possibility that when the valve body fails it cause the clutches to worn or burn then I need to pull the trans for a rebuild. Since most of 01M last for 100-150k and mine has 120k I'd rather do it before it fails.

[geniushanbiao]

Originally Posted by IndyTom

X2
I am with Smileybug. Why waste your money on installing a new or rebuilt Valve body if the rest of the transmission may fail shortly after? I would change fluid for sure since new fluid that hasn't been totally contaminated will help. After that I would just drive it until it really needs to be replaced. There are some places that sell a brand new O1M transmission for around 2k which isn't too bad compared to dealership prices.

They are not actually independent. A worn valve body will cause clutch to wear faster. If I rebuild the valve body when the clutches are still good, then I can extend the clutches' life. Most of time if valve body is always good and fluid always changed then clutch shouldn't get worn within 200k miles. Most of worn clutches are caused by clogged valve body and dirty trans fluid.

I asked the guy who rebuild it. He told me that the rebuilding price is $360, and it has 7 solenoids he needs to test then determine whether they need replacement. 5 of them are $29 each and the other 2 are $59. The wire harness he doesn't suggest me to replace since it's still good but if I want he told me it's $129. Then the rest is shipping. And with this price I get a rebuilt valve body, not have to pull the trans, and a very high possibility to cure all problems and gain another 50-100k miles life, I think it's worth that.